darth_player
New Member
Will I make more money using the indices for HiLo from Beyond Counting EXhibit CAA or from http://www.blackjackscience.com/Chart_Numbers_Chart.html (Archive copy)
Sims Anyone?
- Thread starter darth_player
- Start date
itakeyourmoney
Well-Known Member
What are the rules for the game you're playing (how many decks, does dealer hit soft 17, whats the pen like, is there late surrender, can you double after a split, etc.)? You'll want to make sure you're using the right index values for your specific rules.
If you provide me with the rules I can use a program called CVData to find the right index plays for you.
If you provide me with the rules I can use a program called CVData to find the right index plays for you.
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darth_player
New Member
four decks, H17, DAS, LS, 75% penetration.
The number of units I would bet = TRUE COUNT - 1
One unit = $10.00
The number of units I would bet = TRUE COUNT - 1
One unit = $10.00
itakeyourmoney
Well-Known Member
Actually, I recently did this for myself--same rules except I did mine with 6d.
To the other players here: does anyone know if index will have changes between 4d and 6d? While I wait for a response I'll run another test, but I put 50+ index plays (I am planning to wong out at -1 or -2 so I removed index plays that required changed action below 0) on a BS card to make it easy to reference.
(Dead link: http://j.imagehost.org/view/0744/hilo_6d_h17_das_ls_with_big_63_index) _
_
These should work for you, but like I said I'll run another test just to make sure.
Edit: I just uploaded a new chart, in the old one I forgot to change the color of one line of DD's.
To the other players here: does anyone know if index will have changes between 4d and 6d? While I wait for a response I'll run another test, but I put 50+ index plays (I am planning to wong out at -1 or -2 so I removed index plays that required changed action below 0) on a BS card to make it easy to reference.
(Dead link: http://j.imagehost.org/view/0744/hilo_6d_h17_das_ls_with_big_63_index) _
These should work for you, but like I said I'll run another test just to make sure.
Edit: I just uploaded a new chart, in the old one I forgot to change the color of one line of DD's.
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itakeyourmoney
Well-Known Member
As I'm running the sims it looks like there will be a difference. I'll have your index ready in a bit.
Lonesome Gambler
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming that CAA uses rounding when determining indices, whereas I believe that Wong used flooring. I didn't read the link that you posted. I think that we can all assume that most numbers printed in CAA are typically expectation-maximizing, rather than risk-averse or conservative (unless indicated otherwise), so I would expect that you would make a tiny, tiny bit more using those indices. For what it's worth, I use the CAA indices.
QFIT
Well-Known Member
Wong uses truncation in the later versions of his book.
CAA appears to use EV-maximizing.
Risk-averse is NOT conservative and has the potential to make more not less. This is a common misconception.
The indexes linked to in the first post are risk-averse. They look like the MIT indexes. They are likely better.
CVData indexes are probably better than the CAA indexes because SBA does not account for resplits or exclude player cards from hit/stand indexes, as well as being risk-averse. But, I've never really tested this.
CAA appears to use EV-maximizing.
Risk-averse is NOT conservative and has the potential to make more not less. This is a common misconception.
The indexes linked to in the first post are risk-averse. They look like the MIT indexes. They are likely better.
CVData indexes are probably better than the CAA indexes because SBA does not account for resplits or exclude player cards from hit/stand indexes, as well as being risk-averse. But, I've never really tested this.
itakeyourmoney
Well-Known Member
Ok so if your spread is TC -1 (with TC of 1 and <=0 using 1 as well going up to a max of TC=7 with a bet of 6 units) playing 4d, h17, das, ls, 75% pen
here are your index numbers (this was Big 63 on CVData and I included all positive counts but only indexes down to -2, since you should not be playing counts below that -- if you want the ones below -2 let me know), the numbers in brackets are the TC values you use for the index:
Hard Hit/ Stand [Hit if TC < value]
12v2 [3]
12v3 [2]
12v4 [0]
12v5 [-1]
13v2 [-2]
13v3 [-2]
13vA [20]
14v7 [16]
14vA [13]
15v7 [15]
15v9 [9]
15vT [4]
15vA [5]
16v7 [12]
16v8 [8]
16v9 [4]
16vT [0]
16vA [3]
Hard DD [DD TC>=value]
5v4 [16]
5v5 [12]
5v6 [16]
6v4 [15]
6v5 [11]
6v6 [15]
7v3 [11]
7v4 [11]
8v2 [14]
8v3 [14]
8v4 [6]
8v5 [4]
8v6 [2]
8v7 [14]
9v2 [1]
9v3 [-1]
9v4,5,6, [always]
9v7 [4]
9v8 [9]
Tv9 [-1]
TvT [4]
TvA [3]
11v2-T [always]
11vA [-1]
Soft DD [DD TC>=value]
A2v2 [11]
A2v3 [8]
A2v4 [3]
A2v5 [0]
A3v2 [13]
A3v3 [7]
A3v4 [2]
A4v2 [19
A4v3 [7]
A4v4 [0]
A5v2 [15]
A5v3 [5]
A6v2 [2]
A7v2 [0]
A7v3 [-2]
A8v2 [9]
A8v3 [5]
A8v4 [3]
A8v5 [1]
A8v6 [0]
A8v7 [16]
A9v2 [10]
A9v3 [9]
A9v4 [7]
A9v5 [5]
A9v6 [5]
A9v7 [15]
Split [Split TC>=value *unless noted*]
22v3 [5]
22v4 [-1]
22v8 [5]
33v2 [0]
33v3 [4]
33v4 [-2]
33v7 *** [split at TC < 13]
33v8 [4]
44v4 [2]
44v5 [-1]
66v2 [-2]
66v3 [-2]
66v7 *** [split at TC < -1]
77v8 [2]
88v9 *** [split at TC < 11]
88vT *** [split at TC < 6]
99v7 [4]
99vA [1]
TTv2 [11]
TTv3 [9]
TTv4 [7]
TTv5 [5]
TTv6 [4]
TTv7 [13]
TTv8 [20]
Surrender [Surrender at TC >= value
77v8 [8]
77v9 [2]
77vT [-2]
77vA [0]
88v9 [5]
88vT [1]
12v9 [16]
12vT [15]
13v8 [19]
13v9 [16]
13vT [10]
13vA [15]
14v7 [14]
14v8 [13]
14v9 [8]
14vT [3]
14vA [6]
15v7 [12]
15v8 [7]
15v9 [2]
15vT [0]
15vA [-1]
16v7 [13]
16v8 [6]
16v9 [2]
16vT [-2]
16vA [-1]
17v8 [17]
17v9 [13]
19vT [12]
Take insurance at TC>=3
If you have any questions about these values please just let me know. Good luck.
Edit: I also ran a sim for you with your spread (units are TC-1 up to a TC of 16].
(Dead link: http://j.imagehost.org/view/0463/sim_for_guy_on_bji) _
_
To QFIT or other users of CVCX: It says he has an ROR of 0.0% -- did I do something to wrong?
here are your index numbers (this was Big 63 on CVData and I included all positive counts but only indexes down to -2, since you should not be playing counts below that -- if you want the ones below -2 let me know), the numbers in brackets are the TC values you use for the index:
Hard Hit/ Stand [Hit if TC < value]
12v2 [3]
12v3 [2]
12v4 [0]
12v5 [-1]
13v2 [-2]
13v3 [-2]
13vA [20]
14v7 [16]
14vA [13]
15v7 [15]
15v9 [9]
15vT [4]
15vA [5]
16v7 [12]
16v8 [8]
16v9 [4]
16vT [0]
16vA [3]
Hard DD [DD TC>=value]
5v4 [16]
5v5 [12]
5v6 [16]
6v4 [15]
6v5 [11]
6v6 [15]
7v3 [11]
7v4 [11]
8v2 [14]
8v3 [14]
8v4 [6]
8v5 [4]
8v6 [2]
8v7 [14]
9v2 [1]
9v3 [-1]
9v4,5,6, [always]
9v7 [4]
9v8 [9]
Tv9 [-1]
TvT [4]
TvA [3]
11v2-T [always]
11vA [-1]
Soft DD [DD TC>=value]
A2v2 [11]
A2v3 [8]
A2v4 [3]
A2v5 [0]
A3v2 [13]
A3v3 [7]
A3v4 [2]
A4v2 [19
A4v3 [7]
A4v4 [0]
A5v2 [15]
A5v3 [5]
A6v2 [2]
A7v2 [0]
A7v3 [-2]
A8v2 [9]
A8v3 [5]
A8v4 [3]
A8v5 [1]
A8v6 [0]
A8v7 [16]
A9v2 [10]
A9v3 [9]
A9v4 [7]
A9v5 [5]
A9v6 [5]
A9v7 [15]
Split [Split TC>=value *unless noted*]
22v3 [5]
22v4 [-1]
22v8 [5]
33v2 [0]
33v3 [4]
33v4 [-2]
33v7 *** [split at TC < 13]
33v8 [4]
44v4 [2]
44v5 [-1]
66v2 [-2]
66v3 [-2]
66v7 *** [split at TC < -1]
77v8 [2]
88v9 *** [split at TC < 11]
88vT *** [split at TC < 6]
99v7 [4]
99vA [1]
TTv2 [11]
TTv3 [9]
TTv4 [7]
TTv5 [5]
TTv6 [4]
TTv7 [13]
TTv8 [20]
Surrender [Surrender at TC >= value
77v8 [8]
77v9 [2]
77vT [-2]
77vA [0]
88v9 [5]
88vT [1]
12v9 [16]
12vT [15]
13v8 [19]
13v9 [16]
13vT [10]
13vA [15]
14v7 [14]
14v8 [13]
14v9 [8]
14vT [3]
14vA [6]
15v7 [12]
15v8 [7]
15v9 [2]
15vT [0]
15vA [-1]
16v7 [13]
16v8 [6]
16v9 [2]
16vT [-2]
16vA [-1]
17v8 [17]
17v9 [13]
19vT [12]
Take insurance at TC>=3
If you have any questions about these values please just let me know. Good luck.
Edit: I also ran a sim for you with your spread (units are TC-1 up to a TC of 16].
(Dead link: http://j.imagehost.org/view/0463/sim_for_guy_on_bji) _
To QFIT or other users of CVCX: It says he has an ROR of 0.0% -- did I do something to wrong?
Last edited:
Nynefingers
Well-Known Member
Based on the BR, SCORE, and winrate, it looks like he would be playing at roughly 1/6 Kelly. At that betting level and no resizing, RoR would be approximately 13.53%^6=0.000613%. He could use the same spread with a $25 unit and still have an RoR below 1%.itakeyourmoney said: