Slot Slutting for TR Offers

ChefJJ · Jan 17, 2011

ChefJJ said:

Not to get too deep on this subject, but one has to wonder at what point does this approach become evident in the eyes of the pit critter doing the rating. When you've got players at different ends of the table betting $10, $15, or even $25 on opposite sides of the line it may not seem that they are working together...especially if that is the general bet level of the table.

But when you've got a player throwing down black(s) on the Pass, and black(s) on the Don't, there's a decent chance that the critter sees through it. If the table is wagering at this high level, maybe not...and it could be a solid way to generate heightened standing in the TR system.

Trying to remember something I read a while back, a common estimate of the number of rolls per hour on a full craps table is in the ballpark of 125. Also noting that about 30% of the rolls are come-out rolls (those are the only ones affecting the team's bankroll, unless odds are taken), that comes out to ~38 come-out rolls/hour.

Probability says 1/36 will be losers (12s) for the Pass Line player, so the rough long run math says that the team would come out down 1 wager per hour. If two players are getting black-level comps and offers for an expected one-bet/hour loss, would that be worth it? A comp pro would have to deliver the answer...Shadroch?

shadroch · Jan 17, 2011

I'd try to mask it a bit more. One guy tossing steady black, two guys betting green and alternating their bets. Do it on a fight weekend and it might work.
do it on a Tuesday afternoon and they would catch on it a bit. Inot sure how they would handle it. They might look at it and say these guys are trying to put something over and give zero comps, or they might realize you had no chance of winning and be happy to toss you a bone to keep you and your teams $100 an hour expected loss coming back.Then again, figuring 12 hours of play on a long weekend, that $1200 you expect to lose could get you a suite, a few meals, some shows, and a car rental without stepping foot in the casino just by paying cash.
Comp sucking is akin to sword swallowing. You want to make it appear to be much worse than it really is.

darco77 · Jan 18, 2011

Great discussion here. And while I appreciate the suggestions, I'll clarify here that I'm going for a pure play: I want my record to only show I'm a slot player who generates between $500 and $1000 in action every infrequent visit. I'm trying to replicate the method outlined by shadroch in the previously mentioned post, where someone can remain in Gold status and still get the mail offers. So for now, I plan to simply wait it out, possibly giving them another $500 day in the next month or two. Once the mail offers start pouring in - or, conversely, I determine that the mail offers are not ever going to come in as I had hoped - then I may start dabbling with the website offers, the 9/6 JOB VP, or perhaps the Come/Don't. Shadroch, feel free to correct me if I've interpreted your method wrong.

shadroch said:

Yes, it wasn't you who said this. It was someone on a different forum, and it was in comparison to the dollar progressives like Megabucks, which I'm staying away from. And regarding those nickel/penny machines, I'll take the variance and the higher EV of the dollar reels over the lower EV of the 200-play penny slots.

WRX said:

I believe I will either eat these two $20 FPs, or use one of them on a day that I plan to generate another $500 in action. If the marketing department decides to "back the truck up" and I get some juicier FP offers, then I'll contemplate trashing my good daily average.

And speaking of trashing your daily average, I was asked for my TR card by a bartender at Paris last week. Apparently, you can generated points through food/drink spending now. Assuming it's a no-action day, one $8 drink could devastate this plan.

Machinist said:

Oh, of course! I learned 10/7 DB a couple years ago to get offers from one of my favorite places to stay in Reno (they have a bank of them). But like I said above, I'm going strictly for the rooms here, and HET has an assload of rooms to fill, in some pretty desirable cities (LV, NOLA, AC, etc). Anyways, from what I've seen, there's very little playable VP at the Evil Empire properties, and their progressives have to go through the roof before they go positive. And those nifty bonus slots (DD Mine, etc) are gone from their properties, from what I've been able to tell.

shadroch · Jan 18, 2011

I don't Get the whole "use your card to get points when you buy a drink or eat or shop with us" thing. I'm not sure if any of that triggers "a trip" but don't want to find out.

alwayssplitaces · Jan 18, 2011

A friend of mine went to Atlantic City recently. Before she left I gave her my Total Rewards card and asked her to play the slots with my card in the machine. I know she doesn't have her own card and feels like she doesn't play enough to get comps. I'm going to Vegas myself in a few weeks using a comp from Harrahs, and I plan to stiff them by not playing at all. But maybe I should invest $100 in my TR account by playing it through a slot machine till it's gone, which would be the equivalent of paying $25 a night for the hotel room.

SWFL Blackjack · Jan 20, 2011

shadroch said:

They do it for the same reason that any retail store has a rewards card; to track your spending. By knowing your age, race, demographic, and purchasing behavior, they can detect patterns in purchasing behaviors and shift their marketing and selections to better cater to you. If their research shows that 21-25 year old males purchase more liquor on Fridays than other demographics, they will direct the appropriate marketing to people within this group. Theoretically, they could also track if you gamble more after purchasing alcoholic beverages. If this is the case, they may offer you discounted or free drinks to encourage you to gamble more than you typically would otherwise.

shadroch · Jan 20, 2011

Sure, but why blow your ADT by presenting your card when buying a $5 bottle of soda in the shop?

darco77 · Feb 3, 2011

TR eStatement

As I stated in my initial post, I racked up 230 Reward Credits during my Jan 9 session at Paris. This is the only action I gave in January.

This morning I received my monthly TR eStatement dated Jan 31. It shows I accumulated 830 credits in January.

I'm assuming the extra 500 credits came from that mysterious black box known as Bonus Reward Credits. Does anyone have any insight on this?

alwayssplitaces · Feb 6, 2011

I just got back from Vegas. I had a room comp, and didn't play a dime of my own money through a slot machine. I just found someone playing a dollar slot at $3 a spin without a players card, and struck up a conversation with him. Then I inserted my card in there. I told him that I count cards in blackjack and won big, and they would kick me out of the casino when they notice my win, so I wanted to show a loss through slot play. I got 200 RCs till he lost everything.

Most of my blackjack play was downtown. The day that I got the 200 RCs was my first day, and I also placed a $100 bet on the Steelers +2.5 and played poker while rated. So hopefully they see that I played a lot and assume I lost everything on my first day. The blackjack tables are all 8D 6-5 which is absolutely horrible.

KenSmith · Feb 6, 2011

darco77 said:

You should see Bonus RCs accumulating the day you play. They are generally visible either immediately or within a few minutes on your card, if the games you are playing award them. (Not all machines do.)

I suspect what you are seeing is an extra 500 RCs that some properties add at the end of any month that you register play. I know Harrahs New Orleans does this, but I'm not sure about which other properties do it.

ChefJJ · Feb 6, 2011

alwayssplitaces said:

Noticed that the TR system includes sportsbook wagers now on my last trip a couple weeks ago...very nice proposition as I usually get out there for a weekend or two during the NFL season. Nice to get points for that play...anybody have an idea what the book action yields for RCs?

darco77 · Feb 7, 2011

KenSmith said:

Good to know. Is this visible on the slot's digital display, or do I need to swipe it on a kiosk after playing?

KenSmith said:

This makes more sense, given the round number. I'll make note of this.

NightOwl · Feb 7, 2011

darco77 said:

The tc and rc numbers on the kiosks aren't always up to date. The numbers on the machine's digital display are accurate.

KenSmith · Feb 7, 2011

darco77 said:

After playing for a while, pull your card and wait a few minutes. Re-insert your card and you should see a scrolling message: "On DATE you earned X Base Credits and Y Bonus Credits." Your RC balance will then be displayed and it will have been increased by the total earned.

Sometimes you may need to pull and reinsert the card two or three times for the most recent session to appear in the numbers.

NightOwl · Feb 7, 2011

KenSmith said:

After double carding in AC HET shops, the message will start "Your comp balance is being gathered".

darco77 · Apr 12, 2011

Update - Slot Slutting

We're a bit overdue for an update. This one won't be as data driven as my initial post, but I'll convey everything that has transpired and what I've learned since my initial posts.

In one of my earlier posts, I stated I wanted to keep this experiment a "pure play" by only using snail- and e-mail offers, while paying no mind to the website offers. Two things prompted me to deviate from this plan. One, the mail offers just aren't that strong. That may change in the future, or it may not. Time might tell. Two, there's a strong chance that I'll be changing my place of residence to Las Vegas in the next twelve months. Hence, I am compelled to take advantage of all offers before my official address changes and, with it, the type of offers. If I move to LV, the initial experiment is screwed.

Since my initial post, I've only given them one more session. I racked up about 1000 points in early March up in the RNO. Same type of machine, an old school $1 3 reel stepper. And, as usual, I got mopped. My actual loss thus far is about $1100, while my theoretical loss is about $400. I calculated my theo using a conservative hold rate of 90%, while the machines I play fall in the 92% - 96% return range, according to the 2010 and 2011 ACG.

As far as the offers - via the website and the mailers - things are going well. I'm still far, far away from being comped the Hangover Suite at the Palace (nor the 21 suite at the pHO, for that matter), but the low roller rooms are plentiful. I took two nights at HET RNO for free, along with $20 free play. I used the website to get a severely discounted rate at the Flaming Pink during March Madness / St Paddy's / Spring Break week. I have 3 free nights this month at HET RNO, along with another $20 in free play. And next month (May), I have 3 free nights at their mid-tier mid-strip property in LV, along with an entry into an invite-only slot tourney. Nothing says "degen" more than an invite to a private slot tournament.

I've also had a couple of offers for Laughlin. Neither of them were free, but they were discounted well. 4 nights lodging, and a chartered MD-80 (which I've creatively entitled Degenerate Air) for $200. I might take up one of these offers once they get down to about $0.

This whole gig has been entirely entertaining thus far. I absolutely love digging into such subjects. But as far as the money goes, it's about a wash. The value of my realized offers is slightly greater than my actual loss. However, this figure is over 3x my theoretical loss. In other words, if Old Man Variance had been a bit kinder to me, I'd be well ahead.

I'm going to keep plugging away at this, recording all data along the way. One thing I've learned so far: you actually earn Reward Credits on the freeplay money. That's not a big deal when you're only getting $20 like I am, but could be significant with larger offers. A second thing I've learned: stiff them once, and it will be reflected in your offers. I gave them nothing on my March trip, and it now shows when I log on to TR.

shadroch · Apr 12, 2011

If you move to Vegas, try and keep your former address or change it to something where you can get mail forwarded from. If you go to your local Motor Vehicle, tell them you lost your license and obtain a new one. Then ,in Vegas, you can turn one in, keep the duplicate and obtain a Nevada one. Use that at casino booths to sign up for a second players account. Just be aware that your first license is now no good and should be used only for slot club id. You'll be getting two mailings- the out of state mailing and a seperate locals mailing.

Dyepaintball12 · Apr 12, 2011

darco77 said:

We're a bit overdue for an update. This one won't be as data driven as my initial post, but I'll convey everything that has transpired and what I've learned since my initial posts.

In one of my earlier posts, I stated I wanted to keep this experiment a "pure play" by only using snail- and e-mail offers, while paying no mind to the website offers. Two things prompted me to deviate from this plan. One, the mail offers just aren't that strong. That may change in the future, or it may not. Time might tell. Two, there's a strong chance that I'll be changing my place of residence to Las Vegas in the next twelve months. Hence, I am compelled to take advantage of all offers before my official address changes and, with it, the type of offers. If I move to LV, the initial experiment is screwed.

Since my initial post, I've only given them one more session. I racked up about 1000 points in early March up in the RNO. Same type of machine, an old school $1 3 reel stepper. And, as usual, I got mopped. My actual loss thus far is about $1100, while my theoretical loss is about $400. I calculated my theo using a conservative hold rate of 90%, while the machines I play fall in the 92% - 96% return range, according to the 2010 and 2011 ACG.

As far as the offers - via the website and the mailers - things are going well. I'm still far, far away from being comped the Hangover Suite at the Palace (nor the 21 suite at the pHO, for that matter), but the low roller rooms are plentiful. I took two nights at HET RNO for free, along with $20 free play. I used the website to get a severely discounted rate at the Flaming Pink during March Madness / St Paddy's / Spring Break week. I have 3 free nights this month at HET RNO, along with another $20 in free play. And next month (May), I have 3 free nights at their mid-tier mid-strip property in LV, along with an entry into an invite-only slot tourney. Nothing says "degen" more than an invite to a private slot tournament.

I've also had a couple of offers for Laughlin. Neither of them were free, but they were discounted well. 4 nights lodging, and a chartered MD-80 (which I've creatively entitled Degenerate Air) for $200. I might take up one of these offers once they get down to about $0.

This whole gig has been entirely entertaining thus far. I absolutely love digging into such subjects. But as far as the money goes, it's about a wash. The value of my realized offers is slightly greater than my actual loss. However, this figure is over 3x my theoretical loss. In other words, if Old Man Variance had been a bit kinder to me, I'd be well ahead.

I'm going to keep plugging away at this, recording all data along the way. One thing I've learned so far: you actually earn Reward Credits on the freeplay money. That's not a big deal when you're only getting $20 like I am, but could be significant with larger offers. A second thing I've learned: stiff them once, and it will be reflected in your offers. I gave them nothing on my March trip, and it now shows when I log on to TR.

Make sure to always read all your offers carefully on the TR website. Sometimes they have strange names like "NCL Offer" or stuff like that but upon inspection they are fantastic. Also be on the look out for Comp multipliers!

These don't show up for the Vegas casinos so much as out of the way casinos in my experience though.

BTW, Chef, I'm pretty sure you get next to nothing in terms of RCs for sports bets. I know they take your card but I don't think you get much.

ChefJJ · Apr 12, 2011

Dyepaintball12 said:

You're probably right...maybe the typical 1 point per $5 system? But if you've got a couple hundred on some games when you're in town, it can't hurt.

Dyepaintball12 · Apr 12, 2011

ChefJJ said:

Yeah. I was hoping I would get some free bet offers or something of the sort in the mail from when I basically lived in the Planet Hollywood Sports book in January, but nothing yet!

- Dye

Slot Slutting for TR Offers

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