Soft doubles

[The Chaperone]

I actually agree with 3333's sentiment on not using the indices for A2-A5 vs. 2. I mean there are indices for soft doubling vs. 7 too, but there's no real point in that unless you have a ginormous count and are actually trying for variance (i.e. Don Johnson).

I do learn the others, but it seems like the only ones that would be worth much are the A8s and A9s (which some may not want to do because of heat) and A6 and A7 vs. 2,3 and maybe A4 vs. 4.

As for kewljason, pair splitting indices aren't worth much either, but it *is* advisable to know basic strategy for pair splitting

 

[The Chaperone]

Nm

 

[Ferretnparrot]

What they are all leaning towards is the idea that the indexes arnt worth it because the value gained by doubling, isnt greater than the value gained by placing the money on the next hand.

so If the index is there because the play is worth 0.02% more EV its not worth the "RISK" because at the current coutn being played the gain is higher by placing ti on the next hand and avoiding risk. This is in terms of the EV for the hand so the decision is made to raise the index untill its more beneficial or avoid the index since its less risky to simply put the money on the next hand.

I have an argument in that the probibility of the dealer busting can EXCEED 50% when they show 6 or 5 at elevated TC (and 4 in extreme cases) which would make it most certainly less risky to double down instead of taking a lower win rate on the next hand. and also put more money into action on the next hand since the average bet for a new hand is higher than 1 where the additional money to double is always fixed at one max bet.

Maximum gain is my style of play so i opt to use them.

The indexes I use are
A9 vs 6,5,4 = +5,+5,+7
A8 vs 6,5,4,3 = +1,+2,+3,+6
A7 vs 2= +1
A,2 vs4 = +3
A,3 vs4 = +2

 

[bj bob]

Soft doubled don't add all that much value. Much less than learning hard doubles and splits. If you didn't learn any soft double indices you really aren't giving up much. A8 vs 5,6 are probably most valuable of the lot.

Agreed. I don't even soft double anything below A-6. It's just not worth the extra effort and definitely not worth the few extra cents / hr.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Those Hard Soft Doubles

A8 vs 6 is BS in h17 game?

Soft doubles are not worth much in BS or indicies because of their rare frequency. I am not advocating misplaying BS, but just pointing out the low value of soft doubles.

If you look at the ILL 18 they consist of hands that come up fairly frequently, players hand vs dealers 10 and player hands that have multiple ways of being made like 12 (10,2 & 9,3 & 8,4 & 7,5) plus the multiple card 12s.

Knowing:
A,8 vs 5 & 6
8 vs 5 & 6
can add a little value

 

[Gamblor]

A8 vs 6 is BS in h17 game?

Yes.

 

[The Chaperone]

Agreed. I don't even soft double anything below A-6. It's just not worth the extra effort and definitely not worth the few extra cents / hr.

So you don't double A5 vs 6?

 

[MangoJ]

If you are unfamiliar with the risk averse strategy I think QFIT has a good explanation on his site. It is called "Risk-averse versus expectation maximizing indices". In his "How to create a blackjack strategy-card counting techniques" there is a subsection called "Index generation for card counting". In this subsection you find the "Risk-averse versus expectation maximizing indices" explanation. It is very brief but drives the point home.

Thanks for your references. I indeed do not have much experience with RA indices, although I think to know how to calculate them, just maximizing CEV instead of EV for split and double decisions.

Without reading any book yet, after defining a counting system (with or without side counts) and bet ramp and bankroll, I would get a representative finite ensemble of deck distributions for each count (by simulating random draws and binning them according to TC defined by the counting system). Then for each member of the (TC-dependent) subensemble I would calculate/simulate CEV for each split and double decision. The TC-threshold would be the RA index.

Actually I didn't invest time into that work yet, but it would surely be enlightened.

 

[bj21abc]

Simmed - Value of Soft Doubles

So, answering my own question...

Standard 6D game spread 1-12u.
(nb my indices are usually risk-averse, factor 2)

 

[zengrifter]

For a 6d, s17, ls, das game, are there useful indices for soft doubles? Anything i would double against a 2 at certain counts? a8 against 5 & 6 when? A2 & 3 vs 4? Also, what about hard 8?

The only soft double #s you need are in THE Interview page-5. zg

 

[bj bob]

So you don't double A5 vs 6?

Nope, I play nothing but pitch in Northern Nev., so I have enough to focus on besides catching the eye of some dim witted PB.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Basic BS

Yes.

A8 vs 6 double h17 game?

rhetorical, I think no one mentioned it?

 

[All Clear]

Deciding which index numbers to use also depends on where you play. In A.C., I rarely find less than 1.25/8 decks cut off, so the TC never really goes above +7. There is no point in learning any index numbers that are slightly below that either, since an index number of +6, even if the TC is just over that at +7, doesn't have a major EV difference between the two choices to play the hand. If your casino deals deeper, leading to more varied TC figures, some of the higher index numbers may be more valuble.

At S17, I use A2 vs 5 at 0, A7 vs 2 at +1, A8 vs 5 or 6 at +1. 8 vs 6 at +2, 8 vs 5 at +4.

 

[bj bob]

So you don't double A5 vs 6?

Nope, there will be another hand dealt shortly. I guarantode ya that..