Some advice needed

[monkulescu]

Hi there,

I must say I've learned a lot from your website. I live in Romania. The casinos here don't quite care about card counting, so you can play as much as you want. We have a 6-D game, with 1,5-2 deck penetration, dealer stands on soft 17, double any card, double after split allowed and early surrender. I've seen a chart where with basic strategy, you have a house edge of 0,08%. The only problem here is that you cannot surrender on a dealer's Ace. My question would be how is that influencing the house edge (not beeing able to surrneder on ace) and what card counting system should I learn to use more properly on these rules, since now I'm using Hi-Lo and I know that this is not the most accurate system.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

 

[jack.jackson]

Hi there,

I must say I've learned a lot from your website. I live in Romania. The casinos here don't quite care about card counting, so you can play as much as you want. We have a 6-D game, with 1,5-2 deck penetration, dealer stands on soft 17, double any card, double after split allowed and early surrender. I've seen a chart where with basic strategy, you have a house edge of 0,08%. The only problem here is that you cannot surrender on a dealer's Ace. My question would be how is that influencing the house edge (not beeing able to surrneder on ace) and what card counting system should I learn to use more properly on these rules, since now I'm using Hi-Lo and I know that this is not the most accurate system.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

;

 

[jack.jackson]

Hi there,

I must say I've learned a lot from your website. I live in Romania. The casinos here don't quite care about card counting, so you can play as much as you want. We have a 6-D game, with 1,5-2 deck penetration, dealer stands on soft 17, double any card, double after split allowed and early surrender. I've seen a chart where with basic strategy, you have a house edge of 0,08%. The only problem here is that you cannot surrender on a dealer's Ace. My question would be how is that influencing the house edge (not beeing able to surrneder on ace) and what card counting system should I learn to use more properly on these rules, since now I'm using Hi-Lo and I know that this is not the most accurate system.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

; Can you Sr on ace AFTER dealer checks for a natural[bj] w/ace up or not at all period.

 

[monkulescu]

dealer doesn't check for BJ, it's that european style BJ where dealer draws his second card after every one has finished hitting or standing. you cannot surrender at all on ace

 

[monkulescu]

oh, and you can ask for even money on BJ if dealer has ace or 10. that helps if the count is high i guess

 

[Thunder]

I hope that doesn't mean you lose all of your wager when you double down and the dealer has BJ!

 

[monkulescu]

yes you do. if you have 11, dealer 10 or ace, you double, dealer makes BJ you lose it all. i never though double on dealer 10 or ace

 

[jack.jackson]

yes you do. if you have 11, dealer 10 or ace, you double, dealer makes BJ you lose it all. i never though double on dealer 10 or ace

First of all, this isnt the real early surrender. Real early Sr has all become but obsolete. Since most of your advantage when using this option comes from saving half your bet when the dealer has an ace. This rule isnt much better than late Sr if at all, the two differences in the two is that in late Sr you can still fold against an ace provided dealer dosent have blackjack. But in this version you cant,but instead have the option of folding when dealer has a ten, allowing you to save half your bet before he checks for blackjack, when you weigh the two out the balance is probably about the same, but i cant say for sure what the exact difference is.The late Sr gain varies from about .02% flat betting with basic strategy to about .20% variable betting with an advanced strategy which is probably somewhere in the range of this version of Sr.

 

[jack.jackson]

First of all, this isnt the real early surrender. Real early Sr has all become but obsolete. Since most of your advantage when using this option comes from saving half your bet when the dealer has an ace. This rule isnt much better than late Sr if at all, the two differences in the two is that in late Sr you can still fold against an ace provided dealer dosent have blackjack. But in this version you cant,but instead have the option of folding when dealer has a ten, allowing you to save half your bet before he checks for blackjack, when you weigh the two out the balance is probably about the same, but i cant say for sure what the exact difference is.The late Sr gain varies from about .02% flat betting with basic strategy to about .20% variable betting with an advanced strategy which is probably somewhere in the range of this version of Sr.

In addition to this you lose additional money on doub and split's [-.13] so you should never doub or split against a ten or ace however, continue to split aces against a ten. Furthermore, you cant take insurance w/an ace which can cause serious havoc to the card counter disabling your oppurtunity to save your big bets.
And as far as insuring blackjacks on tens is a risky business unless you know what the exact playing index is.Probably to high to even matter in a six deck game.Your odds off the top are 6d[.-61]no hole card[.-13]S17[.00]LtSr{+.08]
DAS[+.14]. Reference:blackjack for blood +1,2, or 4 deck games.

 

[monkulescu]

"Furthermore, you cant take insurance w/an ace which can cause serious havoc to the card counter disabling your oppurtunity to save your big bets.
" what do you mean i can't take insurance on ace? of course i can...

 

[jack.jackson]

"Furthermore, you cant take insurance w/an ace which can cause serious havoc to the card counter disabling your oppurtunity to save your big bets.
" what do you mean i can't take insurance on ace? of course i can...

My apologies,just that some casinos dont offer insurance i assumed this to be one of them. I have yet to play in games where dealer takes no hole card.
Do you do well playing in this game?

 

[monkulescu]

i just started playing, i think i have like 20-30 hours of play in the casino. i'm up 550$ on a 5$ minimum bet, but i don't know if that's relevant. i had one bad beat, but i recovered. can you think of another counting system that could work better considering these rules? i currently use Hi-Lo.

 

[jack.jackson]

i just started playing, i think i have like 20-30 hours of play in the casino. i'm up 550$ on a 5$ minimum bet, but i don't know if that's relevant. i had one bad beat, but i recovered. can you think of another counting system that could work better considering these rules? i currently use Hi-Lo.

The rules are probably of secondary importance,almost any system can compensate for optional rules. What's of primary concern is the number of decks in play and if you frequently play in clubs where multiple deck are prevelent and you want to continue to play in them but desire somthing with a little bit more accuracy and power. I would suggest something of a level 2 count without a side count of aces. I read somebody saying something about the count zen count. Since i primarily prefer the two deck i stand religously by the A011[blackjack for blood] However, if you can keep these results up at about 4or5 units per hour, why would you even bother.

 

[monkulescu]

that's a good point... in average since i started playing i'm up 5 units or so per hour... the thing is i cannot afford a big bankroll. i bet 1 unit when count is low, 3 or more (up to 8) when count is high. i read once in an article about a guy that had a pretty risky betting system, but he had the bankroll to support it: when the count was low he would bet 1 unit, an when it was high 20 to 50 units (the spread was 1-50, the same is in my casino). how much would that pay off in the long run? is it worth risking it? (i assume you have to have a bankroll of at least 500 units)

 

[jack.jackson]

that's a good point... in average since i started playing i'm up 5 units or so per hour... the thing is i cannot afford a big bankroll. i bet 1 unit when count is low, 3 or more (up to 8) when count is high. i read once in an article about a guy that had a pretty risky betting system, but he had the bankroll to support it: when the count was low he would bet 1 unit, an when it was high 20 to 50 units (the spread was 1-50, the same is in my casino). how much would that pay off in the long run? is it worth risking it? (i assume you have to have a bankroll of at least 500 units)

Ya, you assumed right, thats only 10 max bet's. Even 5000 units is only a hundred 100 max bets. If were talking a ev 1.67% your chance of wipeout is 1n16, an ev 2.67% [which i doubt he does] your chance of wipeout is 1n42 for 100 max bets. So unless you have a substanial bankroll to back up that kind of action,your playing with fire and sooner or later your gonna get burned. Not the kind of odds i would risk 50,000 on.
Also the difference between 1:4 spread to a 1:10 spread, is the same discrepancy in terms of advantage between a 1:8 spread to 1:infinite.
Once you past a 1to10 spread your level of expectation starts to seriously diminish.
By the way what system do you play?

 

[monkulescu]

hi there, i've been away for a while. i play Hi-Lo, sidecounting aces (though that doesn't seem to help a lot). i bet minimum when count is negative, and then 2 units for each +1 on the true count. it worked so far.

 

[Sonny]

hi there, i've been away for a while. i play Hi-Lo, sidecounting aces (though that doesn't seem to help a lot).

What do you use the ace side count for? Playing decisions?

-Sonny-

 

[Kasi]

hi there, i've been away for a while. i play Hi-Lo, sidecounting aces (though that doesn't seem to help a lot). i bet minimum when count is negative, and then 2 units for each +1 on the true count. it worked so far.

Forget about side-counting Aces in Hi-Lo. It's really not worth it.

 

[zengrifter]

Since i primarily prefer the two deck i stand religously by the A011[blackjack for blood] .

It would be easy for you to switch to ZEN and stop side-counting Aces - you can keep your AO2 indices and simply switch your Ace and 9 tag values. zg

tags 2-A -

AO2: 112221 0-1-2 0
ZEN: 112221 0 0-2-1

 

[zengrifter]

hi there, i've been away for a while. i play Hi-Lo, sidecounting aces (though that doesn't seem to help a lot). i bet minimum when count is negative, and then 2 units for each +1 on the true count. it worked so far.

HiLo doesn't provide additional meaningful gain by side-counting the Aces. zg