Surrender benefits

[Kaiser]

I have a question about surrendering. In my casino there is late surrender, though not many people ever use it that I've seen. The ones who do get an earful.

I'm just wondering though, I know surrendering is benefitial when there is a less than 25% chance of winning a hand, since surrendering every hand has the same end result as winning 25% of the hands.

Just how much below 25% are some of these hands, though? My rules are 6 decks, DAS, h17, and these are the hands I'm supposed to surrender:

15 vs. 10, Ace
16 vs. 9, 10, Ace
17 vs. Ace

8,8 vs. Ace

I *thought* I read somewhere that the 16 versus 10 was like 24%. I'm just wondering if that 1% is worth it to the infrequent blackjack player who doesn't feel like being the "table idiot" and arguing with many people at the table. I've seen that happen quite a lot, right or wrong.

Just wondering if anyone knows the odds of these hands being played out, and how much someone is giving back by not surrendering these hands (for a non-counter).

Thanks.

 

[sagefr0g]

I have a question about surrendering. In my casino there is late surrender, though not many people ever use it that I've seen. The ones who do get an earful.

I'm just wondering though, I know surrendering is benefitial when there is a less than 25% chance of winning a hand, since surrendering every hand has the same end result as winning 25% of the hands.

Just how much below 25% are some of these hands, though? My rules are 6 decks, DAS, h17, and these are the hands I'm supposed to surrender:

15 vs. 10, Ace
16 vs. 9, 10, Ace
17 vs. Ace

8,8 vs. Ace

I *thought* I read somewhere that the 16 versus 10 was like 24%. I'm just wondering if that 1% is worth it to the infrequent blackjack player who doesn't feel like being the "table idiot" and arguing with many people at the table. I've seen that happen quite a lot, right or wrong.

Just wondering if anyone knows the odds of these hands being played out, and how much someone is giving back by not surrendering these hands (for a non-counter).

Thanks.

interesting way of looking at the surrender issue you have.
i'm suprise about that surrender 17vA ....
late surrender is worth about 0.07% edge for shoe games
sorry i don't know the answer to your question.
heh, heh table idiot is just the image i try to portray at the tables :joker:
i don't give it a second thought as to surrender and what others say or think although i do try and avoid angering folks at the tables.
i know one thing i sure miss the late surrender rule when i play joints that don't offer it

 

[EasyRhino]

Just so I can beat others to the punch, the other adantage to surrender, besides the slide decrease in edge, is that it's going to tend to reduce your volatility (those hands lose a guaranteed .5 bet, as opposed to winning or losing the entire bet). And since there's enough volatility with bankrolls anyway, that's pretty much a good thing.

The basic strategy engine here will produce surrender instructions. I'm not familiar with surrending 17 vs A either. (although just today when the count got really high I surrendered a 17 vs 10, and while it worked out well on that hand, it may have been a dope-smoker play)

 

[Kaiser]

I played last night, and found out that they don't even let you surrender against an ace! Hadn't heard of that before. You can surrender against anything else, but it has to be announced before anyone at the table makes a play. Kinda strange.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Just so I can beat others to the punch, the other adantage to surrender, besides the slide decrease in edge, is that it's going to tend to reduce your volatility (those hands lose a guaranteed .5 bet, as opposed to winning or losing the entire bet). And since there's enough volatility with bankrolls anyway, that's pretty much a good thing.

The basic strategy engine here will produce surrender instructions. I'm not familiar with surrending 17 vs A either. (although just today when the count got really high I surrendered a 17 vs 10, and while it worked out well on that hand, it may have been a dope-smoker play)

Surrender 17 vs. A is BS for H17 games. 17 vs. 10 is a legit play, but the count has to be very very high to make it worthwhile, about 10 in a level 1 system.

The neatest thing about late surrender is that it's value increases dramatically with count. Surrendering 15 vs 10 is a marginal play with a balanced deck, but when you have a huge count and a ton of money out there it's a great play. That's why it has a lot of value for a counter but not for a BS player.

 

[Renzey]

Late Surrender

It's just a great rule for the good player. In a six deck H17 game, it's worth about .10% due to the three extra hands that should be surrendered. But to a counter, it's worth .20% to .25%! To boot, you can bet a tad higher due to the lower volatility, increasing your overall SCORE quite a lot. Your "averaged" chances of winning those seven surrender hands by playing them out are;

15 vs 10 = .248
15 vs A = .245
16 vs 9 = .247
16 vs 10 = .232
16 vs A = .230
17 vs A = .243
8/8 vs A = .241

 

[Pinos]

I played last night, and found out that they don't even let you surrender against an ace! Hadn't heard of that before. You can surrender against anything else, but it has to be announced before anyone at the table makes a play. Kinda strange.

Even if your in third base? that's crazy... "Hey you, first baser shut up and let me surrender" :laugh:

Guess there're crazy rules everywhere...

-Pinos-