Surrender Strategy

[bjhack]

Our local casino does (and any in the province (Alberta)) can choose to offer surrender, but it is a little different.

The play of the game is such that all players receive two face up cards and the dealer one face up card. Before any further action you can choose to surrender against any dealer card other than an ace. Players complete their hands before the dealer receives an additional card.

After thinking about it, I believe this as a form of early surrender with the downside of no surrender against Ace.

I'm a BS player. Should I be following BS for early surrender in this situation (other than the Ace surrender of course)?

Other details for the casino I play at - 4 decks, H17, DD any 2 cards, DAS, resplit to 4 hands, Aces split once/1 card, BJ 3:2, insurance available. Additional bets (i.e., double down/split) are returned to the player on dealer blackjack, which I take as an effective dealer peaks. Riffle shuffle, 20-50% penetration.

 

[callipygian]

Should I be following BS for early surrender in this situation (other than the Ace surrender of course)?

Yes, but realize that there's no difference between Early Surrender and Late Surrender for cards 2-9. So, as I understand it, you have late surrender with early surrender against a 10.

20-50% penetration.

This is probably the catch if you've typed this out correctly.

20% penetration means they deal out about 0.8 decks out of 4 before shuffling. Is that what you meant?

Because if you meant 80% penetration (3.2 decks out of 4 dealt before shuffling), that would probably be a great game. Note that ENHC doesn't apply because you don't lose split and doubled bets on dealer blackjack.

 

[Shwam]

He must have meant 80, i can find 80 anywhere here in calgary alberta. or close to 80.

 

[Kasi]

I'm a BS player. Should I be following BS for early surrender in this situation (other than the Ace surrender of course)?

Other details for the casino I play at - 4 decks, H17, DD any 2 cards, DAS, resplit to 4 hands, Aces split once/1 card, BJ 3:2, insurance available. Additional bets (i.e., double down/split) are returned to the player on dealer blackjack, which I take as an effective dealer peaks. Riffle shuffle, 20-50% penetration.

So what is BS for this?

Would one always ES in situations where one would LS?

Would one ES 7,7 or 8,8 vs 10 but yet not LS it in a game that only allowed LS?

 

[bjhack]

Yes, I had the penetration % backwards - in Alberta, the regulations require that the "cut-card is placed 35 to 104 cards from the bottom of the pack" for a 4 deck shoe.

Kasi's on the mark regarding the questions that I have.

 

[N&B]

Early Surrender against a 10-value card more than offsets the no-hole-card rule. Any 16 (including 8-8), 15, 14 (including 7-7), and your hand of 7-6 or 8-5 are surrendered early against a 10-value card. Nice 4-deck game by the way.

 

[Crunchmeister]

Wow! E10 a 7,6 and 8,5?! Since when? vs.how many decks? Where else does any place offer ES especially against an Ace? Here in Alberta, a casino will option to have E10...depending on the table limit...usually not available @ a high limit table for laughable reasons(bogus excuses like "it disrupts a big player"...gag!) and sometimes on the lowest limits(ABS Argyll-$3 min.)The strategy I'm "hard-wired" for is....ES10 with any hard total of 14,15 and 16 including pairs 7,7 and 8,8 otherwise use conventional or "Late" surrender where and when applicable. Of course....this can all be done as BS or with a neutral to positive count.

 

[Kasi]

The strategy I'm "hard-wired" for is....ES10 with any hard total of 14,15 and 16 including pairs 7,7 and 8,8 otherwise use conventional or "Late" surrender where and when applicable.

I think that's what I would probably do lol. I don't get the ES13 vs 10. Which doesn't mean a thing lol.

N&B & Crunchmeister - what do you think this ES10 rule would be worth HA-wise, for a BS player? For a counter too if you want lol. Is it really a no-hole card game anyway? Is that what you were saying N&B?

Sounds like an interesting game.

 

[Traveller]

I make the game -.48 off the top.

For Hi Lo

Surrender 16 v 10 at -6 16 v 9 at 0 and at +4 v 8
Surrender 15 v 10 at -2 15 v 9 at +2 and at +7 v 8
Surrender 14 v 10 at 0 14 v 9 at +6 and at +12 v 8
Surrender 13 v 10 at +3 13 v 9 at +13

For Bjhack as a basic strategy player, surrender 14,15,16 v 10 and 16 v 9

T.

 

[bjhack]

Early Surrender against a 10-value card more than offsets the no-hole-card rule.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I didn't make it too clear in the initial post, but any additional bets (splits, DD) are returned on dealer blackjack.

 

[schetam]

I also think you should double 10 vs Ace (even no peek) because you loose original bet only

As for surrender - 10 vs 14,15,16 and 9 vs 16

 

[N&B]

I used a DOS Program called Blackjack 5.0. My response is a composition-dependant situation and is very close. The OP situation is posted elsewhere, and he does indeed have an ES10 situation, as the House takes original bets only if Dealer draws an Ace to the 10-up. Therefore, one can in general add 7.6% to the {House Advantage} Hit/Stand situation. Since the House Advantage is about 42.5% for the 7-6 or 8-5 vs. 10-value, adding the 7.6% is right on the 50% loss line. The 3-10 and 9-4 are less of a House Advantage, and MUST hit. Overall the 13 vs. 10 situation is Hit due to the decreased House Advantage in the 10-3 or 9-4 situations.

BTW I think the OP indicated Stand Soft 17 for a -0.23% game if 6 decks.

 

[bjhack]

I used a DOS Program called Blackjack 5.0. My response is a composition-dependant situation and is very close. The OP situation is posted elsewhere, and he does indeed have an ES10 situation, as the House takes original bets only if Dealer draws an Ace to the 10-up. Therefore, one can in general add 7.6% to the {House Advantage} Hit/Stand situation. Since the House Advantage is about 42.5% for the 7-6 or 8-5 vs. 10-value, adding the 7.6% is right on the 50% loss line. The 3-10 and 9-4 are less of a House Advantage, and MUST hit. Overall the 13 vs. 10 situation is Hit due to the decreased House Advantage in the 10-3 or 9-4 situations.

BTW I think the OP indicated Stand Soft 17 for a -0.23% game if 6 decks.

Whoa, that's alot of numbers.

Overall, given

Hit S17, DAS, Double anything, split any 10 value (groan), 4 decks, riffle shuffle, split to four hands, one card to an ace split (split aces only twice), early surrender against anything other than an A (no surrender against an A) - what is the house odds on this game?