I got a letter in the mail this morning that offered me $25,000 unsecured loan at 10% interest rate. A home equity loan would probably be a better deal, but i was just wondering if any of you have contemplated taking out a loan to get a big BR. Seems to me you would be able to double up your money every few months and pay back a large loan quickly. What do you guys think?
Taking out a loan for gambling
- Thread starter Cass
- Start date
Because you can make a lot more. IF you look at the math of it.... starting with 1,000.. you play for a year and turn it into 32,000. Now if you started with 25k.. 50k, then 100k... 200k, 400k by your example. How much interest did i pay on my 25k to get there? $2500 (10%) 400,000-%27,500 (original investment)= +372,500. So obviously this is much better. But now for the real world of how things work. I believe anything much beyond a 100k Br is insignificant due to table limits. Also i'm thinking of hitting up one specific casino that has a excellent game playing 2times a week there. How long is it going to take them to bar me? I dont know we will just say 6months.... I'd rather play 6months with 25k BR than 1K br.. granted they wont bar you as quick at a red chip level. Also i would have to make payments on this large BR...
But what if you play for a full month and are still in the red? What about two months? Three months? It is not uncommon for professional players to play full time and still not show a profit after several months. There is a much larger chance of it happening to you since you will only be playing part time. The bank is going to want their monthly payments no matter what. If you don’t have it then they will raise the interest rate or eventually default on the loan. You may end up owing them much more than $25,000 after you have lost some of it. Then what? :cry:
Even if you do start winning, will you win faster than the interest rate is accruing? If not, you will see all of your winnings being sent back to the bank as interest, and it still may not be enough to keep the bank happy.
Blackjack is hard enough to play against the casinos, don’t start playing against the banks as well. CitiBank has a much higher house edge than Caesar’s!
-Sonny-
Even if you do start winning, will you win faster than the interest rate is accruing? If not, you will see all of your winnings being sent back to the bank as interest, and it still may not be enough to keep the bank happy.
Blackjack is hard enough to play against the casinos, don’t start playing against the banks as well. CitiBank has a much higher house edge than Caesar’s!
-Sonny-
I would do it IF I didn't have any other assets they could come get. If a home equity line is an option, you obviously do. A young person who wants to start a pro career would be well-advised to take advantage of an opportunity like that. If you end up losing all your money, it is the loan company that is screwed, not you. Note: there have been recent changes in bankruptcy law that might make this strategy more difficult.
On this topic, what happens if you take out a marker and you lose and can't pay? I'm sure they take you to court, but what if the marker is at an Indian casino? Can't you claim lack of jurisdiction (just like they always do) because they are not under the laws of the United States? I've always wanted to try using a marker like a sticky bonus.:devil:
On this topic, what happens if you take out a marker and you lose and can't pay? I'm sure they take you to court, but what if the marker is at an Indian casino? Can't you claim lack of jurisdiction (just like they always do) because they are not under the laws of the United States? I've always wanted to try using a marker like a sticky bonus.:devil:
I understand this I've been playing over 100hrs now and seen my BR go up and down a lot. I'm not really up any money. I would make the payments on the loan with my regular income not with the BJ bankroll. I probably wont do it anyway. Im selling a house within the next couple months, and after that i will have a healthy BR. I just hate waiting. The win rate should be much higher than the interest rate. maybe i will just sell a bunch of stuff! Safer that way. The game i have in mind with a 50k BR- $460/hr EV and 5% ROR!
In wong's book he says your BR should be the amount that if you lost it you wouldnt play anymore. I don't know what that amount would be for myself. Or I have also heard, "the amount you are comfortable losing"
I needed to take out a mortgage on my house does that mean i couldnt afford that? Taking out a loan would just expediate the process of acquiring a larger BR. If i lose it all oh well, i will just spend the next 5 years paying for money i lost gambling. The rewards seem to outweigh the risk for my case. i dont know what im going to do i will have to think about it longer. Personally im not really seeing a downside to this even though it would seem completely insane to 99% of people. I'm not here to please them though.
I needed to take out a mortgage on my house does that mean i couldnt afford that? Taking out a loan would just expediate the process of acquiring a larger BR. If i lose it all oh well, i will just spend the next 5 years paying for money i lost gambling. The rewards seem to outweigh the risk for my case. i dont know what im going to do i will have to think about it longer. Personally im not really seeing a downside to this even though it would seem completely insane to 99% of people. I'm not here to please them though.
Its NOT an insane proposition to an AP.
Another way to go about it is to size your "virtualBR" as an assesment of assets + casino credit lines + portion of home equity, etc. See you don't need the BR to be entirely liquid in order to bet as though it were.
If you were to assess a BR based on your 5-yr projection and it was 100k you could call that the BR and set your bets at 1/5th Kelly, or some such, calc'ing your RoR accordingly and then only replenishing with other assets as needs be. zg
Another way to go about it is to size your "virtualBR" as an assesment of assets + casino credit lines + portion of home equity, etc. See you don't need the BR to be entirely liquid in order to bet as though it were.
If you were to assess a BR based on your 5-yr projection and it was 100k you could call that the BR and set your bets at 1/5th Kelly, or some such, calc'ing your RoR accordingly and then only replenishing with other assets as needs be. zg
ZenGrifter,
I'm not following your logic.
While borrowing money may not be a bad move for a succesful AP,wouldn't a successful AP already have accumalated a substantial BR.Playing the H&S game,or Casino Verite does not make one a successful AP,does it.
Just as banks won't lend money to a really poor person,I'd think anyone who needs to borrow 25G to BR his game isn't a succesful AP.
To me,playing with what you can afford to lose means playing with money you already have,not borrowing $25,000because you can afford to pay it back over five years.
I'm not following your logic.
While borrowing money may not be a bad move for a succesful AP,wouldn't a successful AP already have accumalated a substantial BR.Playing the H&S game,or Casino Verite does not make one a successful AP,does it.
Just as banks won't lend money to a really poor person,I'd think anyone who needs to borrow 25G to BR his game isn't a succesful AP.
To me,playing with what you can afford to lose means playing with money you already have,not borrowing $25,000because you can afford to pay it back over five years.
The logic that anyone who is a AP player has 25k laying around already and if they dont means they arent a successful AP player is stupid. I honestly don't believe many people on the board have more than that. At least from the posts i've read. Probably only the players that have been doing this several years. I've only been playing(with a advantage) a few months. As mentioned earlier a successful counter can play for months or even a year and not get ahead. It is called standard Deviation. Even if i did borrow the money, i could play perfect for 1000 hours and not be up money. It would be unlikely but it could happen. Imagine it as a investment that is fairly high risk has great returns, but a lot of variance along the way. Just think of the book titled "playing Blackjack as a business." To me it makes good sense. Zengrifters intial response hit home with me. No one has convinced me otherwise. Thanks for the opinions though.