tips to next level

[ScottH]

You are wrong thinking that work ethic and disipline are learned or even exist. People just give in to thier urges. Some have extra strong urges to play playstation and others have extra strong urges to do math but they are both helpless to the urge.

Also I really think that professional gambling is way easier than you guys make it out to be, and getting through college and getting a high paying job is way harder than you make it out to be. I think pain and suffering should be avoid and those that disagree and think that it builds character, well it is just not true.

Also if you do go to college than you will need to dedicate a lot of time and effort and money all of which you will never get back. Same with a job. Time is the most important thing. When working if you want to make more money you must work more hours or work harder. When gambling you just wager more money. Jobs destroy lives man. Seriously.

One of the largest misconceptions today is the belief that one should go to school, study hard and get good grades and go to college and get a good job. No one ever got rich working at a job. The only way to get rich is some form of advantage play.

Right on. This post has spurred me to work harder at being a pro AP. We need to start having more meetings and practice what we have been planning on doing since we now have the necessary tools.

 

[EasyRhino]

As far as training yourself not to lose count, it just takes practice. I suggest now that you have the blackjack equipment so to speak, to practice counting while you're dealing out 5 hands. Be sure to call out hand totals, play perfect basic strategy, put out properly sized bets and perform all payouts, all while keeping the count in your head. This is a great training exercise for those that can count perfectly, but lose it when called upon to do it along with other casino activities. I promise you it will be extremely hard to lose count in a casino if you can perform all those actions at once.

Hell, it sounds like you could at least become the ultimate dealer if you can pass that training.

As for the work vs. AP thing, I think after pretty much every counting session I've had so far (winning or losing) I've said to myself "Christ, my day job's a lot easier than this". Oftentimes I actually look forward to going back to work on Monday. And I don't even like my job that much!

 

[PokerJunky]

You think school is not worth it, check out the Wall Street Compensations this year. They're at a record high. You think these firms give out jobs to college drop outs. If you think a counter's income can match any of these pay levels you're seriously mistaken. You can make money w/ limited or no education that's not the point, but having a degree gives you a bunch more options. I driven educated person has unlimited options if looking in the right direction.

-EV, I think not.

 

[Bojack1]

You are wrong thinking that work ethic and disipline are learned or even exist. People just give in to thier urges. Some have extra strong urges to play playstation and others have extra strong urges to do math but they are both helpless to the urge.

Also I really think that professional gambling is way easier than you guys make it out to be, and getting through college and getting a high paying job is way harder than you make it out to be. I think pain and suffering should be avoid and those that disagree and think that it builds character, well it is just not true.

Also if you do go to college than you will need to dedicate a lot of time and effort and money all of which you will never get back. Same with a job. Time is the most important thing. When working if you want to make more money you must work more hours or work harder. When gambling you just wager more money. Jobs destroy lives man. Seriously.

One of the largest misconceptions today is the belief that one should go to school, study hard and get good grades and go to college and get a good job. No one ever got rich working at a job. The only way to get rich is some form of advantage play.

Children and criminals give in to their urges. If your not mature enough to control your urges than you cannot be a professional advantage player. It means you can't control your emotions and that leads to disasterous plays like overbetting, chasing losses, and playing hunches once things get a little hairy as a big loss is unfolding. If you think all you have to do is wager more money if you want more money, you really don't have the concept of how to make money at this game. You bet in proportion with your bankroll and thats it. Just because you want more money doesn't mean you can bet what ever you want, you can, but than you'll be no different than the ploppy gamblers who give their money away everyday. Self control and discipline is even more important in this job than a lot of others that you're trying to avoid.

As for getting through college and finding a good job being hard, its somewhat true. But college was probably some of the most fun I've had in my life. Not to mention the people I met there that led me to a career in professional blackjack. As for finding a job after, I have a good many friends from school that now make much more money in 1 year than what their whole college education cost. The time in school was worth it because it was fun as well as valuable, and for most very lucrative after it.

And if you don't think there's any pain and suffering at playing blackjack for a living, you better check yourself son, because so far it sounds like you have neither the backbone or the smarts to play this game at a high level. If this game hasn't ever disapointed you than you really haven't played it.

I'm also curious where are you going to get the bankroll to play at the level needed to make a living. Unless you plan on living with mom and dad until they die and leave you the house, playing red isn't going to pay the bills. And just playing green will assure you will never buy a new car or house or have any medical insurance besides maybe the free clinic. Blacks or better man, and even then you better have some money stashed away for the dry times.
On top of that you better be one hell of a player, better than what you show now with your lazy attitude, or it doesn't matter how much money you play, you will lose.

Now I'm not a believer that a person should be forced into what path of life to take. College is not for everyone, manual labor is not for everyone. But more times than not bad decisions in life force you to do something that you don't want to do more than any other person can. Successful people do have work ethic, thats not make believe. The bottom line is if you don't work to excel at something you won't. Like you said time is an important thing. But only if used wisely it'll make you, if you do nothing with it it will break you. Time is your biggest enemy when thats all you have.

 

[supercoolmancool]

I wrestled in high school and we would have mental toughness drills to have you preform better during adversity. These drills are worthless because you can't increase your mental toughness because it doesn't exist. Take it from Lance Armstrong. He never trains for pain. However that seems to be what you guys suggest. Working at a job is training for pain. You get disipline, hard work, and important character attributes that will help you through life. But actually they are not real. You will work hard for something if you want it bad enough, if you have a strong enough urge that is. Some people think that children can't control urges but no one can. And if you think you control your urges that is because you have the overwhelming urge to do so. No one ever failed in life because they were too lazy just that they didn't feel the urge to do the necessary things.

I used to have a job and I worked really hard and it sucked. Now I don't have a job, but I work way more intelligently and I make way more money then ever before. I used to work hard for my money but now I realize working at a job is one of the hardest ways to make money considering the pain and sacrifice you must endure. The rich people are entrapenures and investors (advantage play). They don't actually work for thier money. They work but they make money off of their investments so that they don't have to work. They work a lot less then your typical 9-5 but for way more money.

The true winners work more intelligent, not more hard (harder).

 

[eps6724]

I was told all my life to go to college-so I did. Got kicked out. Went again. Dropped out. Joined the army-sucked. Tried school again-left. Finally finished when I felt like I wanted to-but by that time I had a wife and two kids. If school isn't for you NOW, it isn't for you now. I have a 19 year old son who doesn't know what he wants to do. My advice to him? Welding school! A trade he can come and go with as he will!! And if he someday wants to go to school-great. If not, great. FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS but USE YOUR HEAD!!! Blackjack as a living? Better have a lot of patience and willing to learn a lot, cry a lot, etc. etc.

It's called self-employment, and believe me, sometime it sucks! I followed my dream and now here I am- self-employed magician/musician/entertainer. Not rich, but I AM happy! And now I am trying to learn Blackjack on a semi-pro level? As if I don't gamble enough with my chosen career path! But I'll keep learning. PLEASE, don't do anything without thinking the whole way through! (My son works with me-he's an excellent juggler and entertainer but right now has no interest in continuing. Hence, my suggestion of a trade to fall back on!

BTW-anyone know where I can pick up a copy of Harris's report on his system? I can only find it listed as 'out of stock"

Thnaks!
EPS

 

[supercoolmancool]

Also sucessful people tend to think that they are sucessful becuase they worked hard, had dedication, disipline, ect. But actually it was their born talents and abilities. It is negative EV for me to train to play in the NBA just as it it negative EV for someone to go to college or try hard in life in general. These people are not lazy just they don't have the same potential and their hard work doesn't pay off the same so they have smaller urges than high potential people who have large urges because they see the payoff is so great.

Also money/life generally isn't won in a grind. I doubt that you, BoJack, make most of your money grinding out your small 1-2% advantage, but make a large chunk of you yearly earnings from a couple of big opportunities, plays, promotions. Just like in the NFL. Games are won by the team who makes the most big plays, not the team that grinds out the most yards or time of possesion. People tend to waste thier time grinding out a wage when they should think outside of the box for a couple of big plays.

 

[PokerJunky]

Dude, successful people make money from their investments. Yes that is correct, but you need money to make money. Unless you were born w/ a silver spoon, you need to build you assets/wealth first(while paying all the bills) and then, if intelligent enough, investment to make your assets grow exponentially. I am not a proponent of the 9-5 grind, so if that is not you then find something you like to do. Dude, you go to school so you don't have to do a 9-5 grind.

As for the NFL the 60s Packers, 80s Skins, Bears, Giants so on and so on all had ball control offenses and that was the backbone of their team. Ball control set up the big play.

Good luck in your future.

 

[Bojack1]

Also sucessful people tend to think that they are sucessful becuase they worked hard, had dedication, disipline, ect. But actually it was their born talents and abilities. It is negative EV for me to train to play in the NBA just as it it negative EV for someone to go to college or try hard in life in general. These people are not lazy just they don't have the same potential and their hard work doesn't pay off the same so they have smaller urges than high potential people who have large urges because they see the payoff is so great.

Also money/life generally isn't won in a grind. I doubt that you, BoJack, make most of your money grinding out your small 1-2% advantage, but make a large chunk of you yearly earnings from a couple of big opportunities, plays, promotions. Just like in the NFL. Games are won by the team who makes the most big plays, not the team that grinds out the most yards or time of possesion. People tend to waste thier time grinding out a wage when they should think outside of the box for a couple of big plays.

Man I am doing what you aspire to. So it makes no sense for you to give your advice to me how to how its done. However I think I am in a position to give you advice if you want to choose blackjack as a means to make a living. First would be to drop the slacker attitude. It doesn't matter how you try to rationalize it, you're just trying to skate out of having to work at something. You've been on this planet too few years and have no real life experience yet to hand out worldly advice such what it takes to be successful, seeing you have yet to do it yourself. There's a lot more to this game than peeling yourself off the couch and heading down to your local casino every week. You have to travel to keep from burning out the same place and to find the best games. That takes money, which at this point in your young career you don't seem to have, so you really need a job to support your blackjack playing until there comes a time when it can support itself. Which leads me to ask the question, what makes you think it ever will? Like I said before you will have to have a bigger bankroll to sustain a living on. Where's that money coming from? Are you going to sponge off friends and family until you can get up a bankroll big enough to pay your own way? And how do you know you're good enough to even do it. I don't even know you but with your attitude I'd be willing to bet you couldn't even pass the simplest spotter checkout to play on my team. And you know why, it takes work, something you're not willing to invest in. Thats what it comes down to work, whether it be mental or physical, is your most valuable investment. If you choose not to grind out a wage like everyone else maybe you should shoot for a couple of big plays, go buy some lottery tickets and shoot for the moon. Oh wait that might entail walking to a store and filling out a ticket, thats a lot of effort, maybe its best to sit home and live off the poor suckers that work.

 

[kender]

juggle it up, yo

My son works with me-he's an excellent juggler...

howdy to the Jugglers.:joker:

I am also a juggling feind and I must say, its nice to see other jugglers anywhere, so a big hello to my fellow toss-up friend. I hope your cards fall as perfect as a beautiful cascade.:juggle:

 

[sagefr0g]

it's all good

man i luvin these posts of Bojack n Supercool :toast:
but i think i better re-read Sidhartha before commenting....

http://thenagain.info/webchron/India/Buddha.html

 

[supercoolmancool]

Yes you are right Bojack. You need to work hard to be a professional you can't slack off so you have to really want to be a pro. The most obvious solution to the bankroll delimma is a job. That is default answer which one probably doesn't have to think at all to conclude. I will probably get one but for right now I found a way to make more money doing almost nothing. But I mean yah hard work is required but it isn't happening unless you want to work hard.

Hey Kender, how do you juggle 4 balls? I have tried with limited sucess and I was wondering what your technique is?

 

[ScottH]

Man I am doing what you aspire to. So it makes no sense for you to give your advice to me how to how its done. However I think I am in a position to give you advice if you want to choose blackjack as a means to make a living. First would be to drop the slacker attitude. It doesn't matter how you try to rationalize it, you're just trying to skate out of having to work at something. You've been on this planet too few years and have no real life experience yet to hand out worldly advice such what it takes to be successful, seeing you have yet to do it yourself. There's a lot more to this game than peeling yourself off the couch and heading down to your local casino every week. You have to travel to keep from burning out the same place and to find the best games. That takes money, which at this point in your young career you don't seem to have, so you really need a job to support your blackjack playing until there comes a time when it can support itself. Which leads me to ask the question, what makes you think it ever will? Like I said before you will have to have a bigger bankroll to sustain a living on. Where's that money coming from? Are you going to sponge off friends and family until you can get up a bankroll big enough to pay your own way? And how do you know you're good enough to even do it. I don't even know you but with your attitude I'd be willing to bet you couldn't even pass the simplest spotter checkout to play on my team. And you know why, it takes work, something you're not willing to invest in. Thats what it comes down to work, whether it be mental or physical, is your most valuable investment. If you choose not to grind out a wage like everyone else maybe you should shoot for a couple of big plays, go buy some lottery tickets and shoot for the moon. Oh wait that might entail walking to a store and filling out a ticket, thats a lot of effort, maybe its best to sit home and live off the poor suckers that work.

Do you really have enough information to say that he doesn't have the skills to pass a checkout on your team?

I agree with supercoolmancool when he said professional blackjack players make it sound harder than it really is. Yeah, I know that it is hard work, but most pro players make it seem like only the elite of people can do it. You're not any more special than anyone else.

Maybe pros make it sound like the skills needed to be pro are out of reach of normal people is to keep the amount of aspiring pros to a minimum. Because, let's face it, the more pros out there, the worse it is for you. I really think a lot more people COULD become pros, but are deterred by the current pros making it sound like an insurmountable task.

 

[dpmonk2003]

ok I started this thread and I feel there is a lot of wrong assumptions going on. First I dropped out of school like I said, but I do have a full time job. I'm only 21 (birthday today) but I make 30 grand after taxes as a barback. So I make a pretty decent living for a young dude. Second as for discipline I know how it goes. Might not seem that big to most people on here but I played a computer game proffesionally for 2 years. (I won several thousand dollars from it) Just like blackjack it was a lot of fun but there was also a ton of work I put into the game and a ton of frustration. However I feel these are really similiar fields and I know I had the work and dedication to be succesfull in that, and I know I have the the work and dedication to be successfull in blackjack.

P.S on my 21st birthday a couple of the bartenders at my work got me trashed at midnight last night, gave me a 100 bucks and took me to a casino. I was way to drunk to count cards but could still play perfect basic strategy. Keep in mind this is not even my money im playing with. However luck fell my way and I finished up 250 and created a great cover for my play next time, because they definitley won't remember me as a counter. (more like a drunk ass motherfucker.)

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Children and criminals give in to their urges. If your not mature enough to control your urges than you cannot be a professional advantage player. It means you can't control your emotions and that leads to disasterous plays like overbetting, chasing losses, and playing hunches once things get a little hairy as a big loss is unfolding. If you think all you have to do is wager more money if you want more money, you really don't have the concept of how to make money at this game. You bet in proportion with your bankroll and thats it. Just because you want more money doesn't mean you can bet what ever you want, you can, but than you'll be no different than the ploppy gamblers who give their money away everyday. Self control and discipline is even more important in this job than a lot of others that you're trying to avoid.

As for getting through college and finding a good job being hard, its somewhat true. But college was probably some of the most fun I've had in my life. Not to mention the people I met there that led me to a career in professional blackjack. As for finding a job after, I have a good many friends from school that now make much more money in 1 year than what their whole college education cost. The time in school was worth it because it was fun as well as valuable, and for most very lucrative after it.

And if you don't think there's any pain and suffering at playing blackjack for a living, you better check yourself son, because so far it sounds like you have neither the backbone or the smarts to play this game at a high level. If this game hasn't ever disapointed you than you really haven't played it.

I'm also curious where are you going to get the bankroll to play at the level needed to make a living. Unless you plan on living with mom and dad until they die and leave you the house, playing red isn't going to pay the bills. And just playing green will assure you will never buy a new car or house or have any medical insurance besides maybe the free clinic. Blacks or better man, and even then you better have some money stashed away for the dry times.
On top of that you better be one hell of a player, better than what you show now with your lazy attitude, or it doesn't matter how much money you play, you will lose.

Now I'm not a believer that a person should be forced into what path of life to take. College is not for everyone, manual labor is not for everyone. But more times than not bad decisions in life force you to do something that you don't want to do more than any other person can. Successful people do have work ethic, thats not make believe. The bottom line is if you don't work to excel at something you won't. Like you said time is an important thing. But only if used wisely it'll make you, if you do nothing with it it will break you. Time is your biggest enemy when thats all you have.

You can't say this too many times. All the successful people I know are hard working. They worked hard in school, they work hard at work, they work hard at the gym and they work hard mowing their lawn. If they were professional AP's I am sure they would work hard at this too.

Unless you are very lucky you have to work hard to build a bankroll. Especially if you are also living off this bankroll! Living off a bankroll has the same effect as tipping $40K a year- try and calculate what kind of stakes and Kelly fraction you have to be playing at to get away with something like that.

People who aren't good students can become AP's as well as people who aren't the best employees, but this is not something to be resorted to because you think school or work are too hard to trouble yourself with. Working on yourself has to come first.

 

[shadroch]

I've always found that the harder a person works,the luckier he gets.

dpmonk-making 30,000 a year is not that much money if and when you get your own apartment,car and are in a serious relationship.You'd need more than a years salary just to have a sufficent BR,a pro player must spend close to 10,000 a year on travel and lodging.Then you have to figure the money you'll lose when you take days off to travel.
Having managed a nightclub,I know the thing most desirable in a barback is speed and dependability.If one of my BBs started taking time off to do anything,he'd be replaced.Its just the nature of your job.

 

[dpmonk2003]

I've always found that the harder a person works,the luckier he gets.

dpmonk-making 30,000 a year is not that much money if and when you get your own apartment,car and are in a serious relationship.You'd need more than a years salary just to have a sufficent BR,a pro player must spend close to 10,000 a year on travel and lodging.Then you have to figure the money you'll lose when you take days off to travel.
Having managed a nightclub,I know the thing most desirable in a barback is speed and dependability.If one of my BBs started taking time off to do anything,he'd be replaced.Its just the nature of your job.

Why does everyone make so many assumptions? I live in a condo pay for all my own shit since I was 18 I have my own car its paid off. 30 k isn't a whole lot of money but when your a single guy with only rent, car insurance,cell phone, food gas and other expenses you have a ton of money left over.
Secondly you can't assume just because you managed a nightclub your shit is the same as everywhere else. I bust my ass at my job and they love me a ton. They totally believe in rewarding people and seniority, if I wanted to take time off for trips they would have no problem with it as long as I got my shift covered. However I don't even really need to take time off because there is about 8 or 9 casinos all within 50 miles of me. A lot of times I will just drive to one right after I get off of work.

 

[shadroch]

As a BJ pro,you will not be able to make a living playing casinos close to you.
Travel is an essential part of being a bj pro. Even if they keep your job while you are away,you'll be losing the income.
But ,as you seem to have the answers and believe that $30,000 minus rent,gas,insurance,food and other expenses leaves you a "ton of money",obviously we are on different playing fields.
Do as you want,but why ask advice if you don't want to hear it?

 

[Bojack1]

Do you really have enough information to say that he doesn't have the skills to pass a checkout on your team?

I agree with supercoolmancool when he said professional blackjack players make it sound harder than it really is. Yeah, I know that it is hard work, but most pro players make it seem like only the elite of people can do it. You're not any more special than anyone else.

Maybe pros make it sound like the skills needed to be pro are out of reach of normal people is to keep the amount of aspiring pros to a minimum. Because, let's face it, the more pros out there, the worse it is for you. I really think a lot more people COULD become pros, but are deterred by the current pros making it sound like an insurmountable task.

I have never said there is no chance of anyone becoming a pro. I said there is absolutely no chance of it if they don't think its hard work and don't plan to work hard at it. I wish no ill will on anyone, as a matter of fact I hope anyone who has a dream can achieve it. But you insult me and anyone else who has had any success in whatever field they're in, by saying it wasn't through hard work or effort that they achieved it. I wasn't born with a god given talent to play this game, I needed to learn it, and then I needed to bust my ass to master it. You can claim all you want how its not that hard to play blackjack professionally, but that comes from what experience? Is that the opinion of a blackjack player who's barely or not even old enough to legally get into a Vegas casino? Does this opinion come from your being on the road 3 days a week for 5 months straight? Or from your experiences of playing in other countries trying to move your bankroll without losing it in customs? Or maybe its from countless hours of research on how to play this game totally undetectable to the powers that be, that would love to shut down your livelihood due to the godawful disgrace of using your brain to play their game. No that wouldn't be your opinion because all that can be mindnumbing work, which of course is not really needed according to you. I think your opinion comes from someone a couple of years removed from puberty living in North Dakota that thought they found an easy way to make a buck. I honestly wish you good luck in your venture, but I believe you're likely to find hard luck if you don't change your tune.

dpmonk2003 this post was not intended towards you, as I don't feel you fall into the category that I have been addressing. Unfortunately answers to your original post caused the topic to get a little off track. I did however try offer advice in my first post of this thread.

 

[dpmonk2003]

As a BJ pro,you will not be able to make a living playing casinos close to you.
Travel is an essential part of being a bj pro. Even if they keep your job while you are away,you'll be losing the income.
But ,as you seem to have the answers and believe that $30,000 minus rent,gas,insurance,food and other expenses leaves you a "ton of money",obviously we are on different playing fields.
Do as you want,but why ask advice if you don't want to hear it?

If you look back at my last question I asked about shuffle tracking. books on it and what not anything about my personal life. So your answering a question I never asked.