Tropicana is in trouble.

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#21
Evidently you still don't know the difference between a VLM and a slot machine because there is none. If you are talking about the difference between a VLM and a standard Video Poker machine, thats a horse of another color, but the difference between a slot and a Vl machine is that the slot has an individual RGC and the VLM has one for a bank of machines.
It makes no difference to the player as he can't control either.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#22
TROP in deep sh*t -- Revenue Feb. '09

As they do at 2:00 p.m. on the 10th of each month the revenue stats for the prior month have been released.

Revenue in A.C. is continuing to slide.

Before I highlight the Tropicanaa in particular, there are some highlights to spotlight:

The lowest BJ "hold" was at Trump Plaza. A very soft 6.5%
The highest BJ "hold" was at Trump Marina. A hefty 16.3%

Borgata earned an impressive 9.7 Million on their BJ games.
Trump Plaza earned a paltry 1.1 Million on their BJ games.

At CRAPS Caesars LOST $886,399 on a "drop" of 19.8 million dollars. [-4.5%]

At BACCARAT Resorts lost -8%. ($19,702) on $246,575; but their mini-baccarat tables "held" 11.3% to earn $1.1 million dollars.

At BACCARAT The Tropicana lost $13,427 on a "drop" of $448,035 for a hold of -3.00%; but their mini-baccarat tables held 9% of $8,000,000.

At BACCARAT Trump Marina held a not amazing (due to small "drop") 71.9% on their Big Bacc' while their mini-bacc' held 24.2%

At the high-limit SLOTS the best performer was Trump Plaza, where the $100 slot machines lost an awesome $138,078 on a "drop" of just $227,000. for a net loss of 60.8% !

At the high-limit slots the next best performer was The Showboat, where the $25 slots lost $7,234 on a "drop" of $448,035 for a net loss of -3.0%

I am going to note the net win for the BJ games, followed by total casino win at The Trop' as that relates to the title of this forum thread:

Nov. 2.57 million -- total profit: 26.0 million
Dec. 2.31 million -- total: profit 24.0 million
Jan. 2.04 million -- total: profit 24.7 million
Feb. 1.94 million -- total: profit 18.3 million

The recent trend is clear.

If they were in financial straits before they are in quicksand now.

reference: http://www.njccc.gov/casinos/financia/mthrev/ (Archive copy)

 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#23
That all depends on who they is. The Trop was siezed by the NJ Gambling Commision several months ago and the State has been unable to find a buyer. Now that the Tropicana has settled the Chapter 11 proceedings, they actually have a shot at regaining the casino. In this case, it appears the poor performance of the casino may have actually helped the stockholders.
 
#24
shadroch said:
Evidently you still don't know the difference between a VLM and a slot machine because there is none....
Not exactly. With a VLM a RNG (more precisely, a pseudo-random number generator) fires up as soon as you hit the play button, your result is determined, and either a slot machine spin or a video poker hand is generated to match the result that has been determined for you.

With a traditional slot machine (let's say a reel spinner for the sake of argument) the reels are themselves the random number generator and your payout is determined directly by their result. Subtle difference, and from the point of view of the average slot player there is no difference, but what the player may believe is happening isn't what is actually happening and that might be dishonest. In the case it's video poker it's deceptive because a VP AP knows the fact that his skill is what allows him to make money while most other player lose money, when we see a 9/6 paytable on a machine that means something. You might say that if a VLM offered a 99.5% return with the same standard deviation as 9/6 VP and comps and cashback that allow a VP AP to make a profit that would be just fine and dandy, but that would never work because every player would be playing with the skill of a VP AP and the casino would lose money on the machines.

To put it philosophically, you can say that the cards in a VP machine are dealt by an RNG, and if you play perfect VP strategy your hand is also predetermined as soon as you start the game. You could extend that to your session being predetermined as soon as you walk into the casino, because you are going to react to each hand in a fully predictable way and the only uncertain element is that same RNG that runs the VLM's and every other digital game in a casino. So I'm not sure where to draw the ethical line. But for sure disguising a machine as 9/6 JoB with fine print telling you it's really just a VLM with 95% or so return is on the wrong side of that line.
 

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#25
Interesting facts with the Borgata

This recession has barely made a dent in their revenue compared to other casinos. In fact, their BJ revenue is up vs 2 years ago at this time and their slot revenue is barely down. I attribute the good BJ revenue to the BJ games being crowded virtually 24/7 and the fact that they have introduced 8 deck games and lower penetration.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#26
Automatic Monkey said:
Not exactly. With a VLM a RNG (more precisely, a pseudo-random number generator) fires up as soon as you hit the play button, your result is determined, and either a slot machine spin or a video poker hand is generated to match the result that has been determined for you.

With a traditional slot machine (let's say a reel spinner for the sake of argument) the reels are themselves the random number generator and your payout is determined directly by their result. Subtle difference, and from the point of view of the average slot player there is no difference, but what the player may believe is happening isn't what is actually happening and that might be dishonest. In the case it's video poker it's deceptive because a VP AP knows the fact that his skill is what allows him to make money while most other player lose money, when we see a 9/6 paytable on a machine that means something. You might say that if a VLM offered a 99.5% return with the same standard deviation as 9/6 VP and comps and cashback that allow a VP AP to make a profit that would be just fine and dandy, but that would never work because every player would be playing with the skill of a VP AP and the casino would lose money on the machines.

To put it philosophically, you can say that the cards in a VP machine are dealt by an RNG, and if you play perfect VP strategy your hand is also predetermined as soon as you start the game. You could extend that to your session being predetermined as soon as you walk into the casino, because you are going to react to each hand in a fully predictable way and the only uncertain element is that same RNG that runs the VLM's and every other digital game in a casino. So I'm not sure where to draw the ethical line. But for sure disguising a machine as 9/6 JoB with fine print telling you it's really just a VLM with 95% or so return is on the wrong side of that line.

I stated, twice, that there is a difference between a VLM and video poker machine. There is no difference, to the player, between a VLM and a typical slot machine. The reels on todays slot machines are just for show. It doesn't matter if it's a RNG driven machine or its a VLM.
 

Katweezel

Well-Known Member
#27
BJ revenue up

Thunder said:
This recession has barely made a dent in their revenue compared to other casinos. In fact, their BJ revenue is up vs 2 years ago at this time and their slot revenue is barely down. I attribute the good BJ revenue to the BJ games being crowded virtually 24/7 and the fact that they have introduced 8 deck games and lower penetration.
Could the movie, '21' have had anything to do with it?
 

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#28
I doubt the movie 21 had anything to do with it as it would make sense then that the other properties also would have seen an increase when clearly this is not the case.
 
#29
Thunder said:
This recession has barely made a dent in their revenue compared to other casinos. In fact, their BJ revenue is up vs 2 years ago at this time and their slot revenue is barely down. I attribute the good BJ revenue to the BJ games being crowded virtually 24/7 and the fact that they have introduced 8 deck games and lower penetration.
No way, less penetration isn't helpful to the casino's profit. It causes them to spend more time shuffling. You can't underestimate just how rare skilled players are.

The casino's hold percentage is controlled by how many hands they can get a player to stay at the table for and Borgata is pretty good at that with their nice aesthetics and quick dealers. Their "drop" is controlled by the betting levels of their players and Borgata is good at attracting the whales too. They're really the only upper-class casino in town and their numbers reflect that.
 
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