weird day

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#1
I posted this on another forum, so I might as well go ahead and post it here as well, where there are more blackjack players that might appreciate the oddity of this day. I usually don't talk about my days immediately after they occur, but there was nothing unusual or that stood out about any of these sessions, so I don't think there is anything identifying.

So I lost my first 3 sessions all at different casinos. Not huge losses, all several thousand dollars for a total of 8875. I didn't have enough money/chips remaining to safely start a new session. A lot of times I will quit for the day at this point. But this happens to be one of the best weeks to play blackjack in Vegas, after the rodeo people are gone and before the Holiday rush that starts Christmas eve. Really good blackjack conditions, lots of heads up play. So I wanted to continue playing, so I went to the bank and replenished.

Lost my next 2 sessions, both small losses and was now down, 12,650. I had enough for one more session. I won that session, a small win of a couple thousand, went to another casinos played and won another, and then two more after that. I finished the day down $62.50. ;)

The $12,650 that I lost to start the day wouldn't have been my biggest single day loss, and the rebound of $12,587.50, wouldn't have been my biggest single day win. But both are pretty unusual at my level of play. So to first lose and then win back that amount, is pretty damn unusual at my stakes. :rolleyes: There is a case to be made that the good playing conditions, several heads up games, can cause that kind of volatility. More than usual high counts which is where big wins and losses occur.

One good thing is that a huge loss followed by a dig out of that hole can be a pretty dangerous thing if you do so all at the same location. It means you have showed way too much, especially during that dig out, and there is usually a price to pay for that, often on the next visit to that location. But being that my losses and recovery took place at 9 different casinos, that isn't an issue for me.
 

MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
#2
It's still just incredible to me that you went to 9 (+bank) different places in one day there, and that's a regular day for you. The driving would drive me nuts!
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#3
MrFatCat said:
It's still just incredible to me that you went to 9 (+bank) different places in one day there, and that's a regular day for you. The driving would drive me nuts!
This is not a regular day for me. 5-6 sessions is a regular day for me. Several of the casinos (+ the bank) were within walking distance of each other, so, not as much driving as you think.
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#4
KewlJ said:
I posted this on another forum, so I might as well go ahead and post it here as well, where there are more blackjack players that might appreciate the oddity of this day. I usually don't talk about my days immediately after they occur, but there was nothing unusual or that stood out about any of these sessions, so I don't think there is anything identifying.

So I lost my first 3 sessions all at different casinos. Not huge losses, all several thousand dollars for a total of 8875. I didn't have enough money/chips remaining to safely start a new session. A lot of times I will quit for the day at this point. But this happens to be one of the best weeks to play blackjack in Vegas, after the rodeo people are gone and before the Holiday rush that starts Christmas eve. Really good blackjack conditions, lots of heads up play. So I wanted to continue playing, so I went to the bank and replenished.

Lost my next 2 sessions, both small losses and was now down, 12,650. I had enough for one more session. I won that session, a small win of a couple thousand, went to another casinos played and won another, and then two more after that. I finished the day down $62.50. ;)

The $12,650 that I lost to start the day wouldn't have been my biggest single day loss, and the rebound of $12,587.50, wouldn't have been my biggest single day win. But both are pretty unusual at my level of play. So to first lose and then win back that amount, is pretty damn unusual at my stakes. :rolleyes: There is a case to be made that the good playing conditions, several heads up games, can cause that kind of volatility. More than usual high counts which is where big wins and losses occur.

One good thing is that a huge loss followed by a dig out of that hole can be a pretty dangerous thing if you do so all at the same location. It means you have showed way too much, especially during that dig out, and there is usually a price to pay for that, often on the next visit to that location. But being that my losses and recovery took place at 9 different casinos, that isn't an issue for me.
I've asked this question before and always get varying answers. But, I've usually asked it of people going to Vegas for, say, a one-week trip and who experience a huge reversal to wind up basically flat for the trip (or, in your case, day).

Financially, the result is breaking even, so it matters not, pocketbook-wise, how you got there. But, the question is: which is more satisfying -- or more emotionally upsetting -- to you. To have a huge lead the whole trip and then lose it all back just before getting on the plane to go home; or to be losing the whole trip, and then to win it all back to get even before going home?

Clearly, there is elation for the latter, just before going home, but misery for the majority of the trip. For the former, you go to sleep each night and wake up each morning happy with how much you're winning, but then it sucks at the very end to blow it all. Again, same financial result.

If anyone cares, I'll give you which one I prefer -- and I've had my fair share of both -- but not until we get a few responses, just for fun.

Don
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#5
well my response is that it doesn't matter to me. I am long past tracking results by wins and losses. For me it is about EV. I know people will be skeptical when I say this but, I feel better about a losing day, with strong EV, (especially if I can look back and feel I played well) than I feel about a winning day, with small or weak EV. In the end it is the EV that matters. The actual results will always catch up (or come back to).

Now that said, I can remember those feeling of a big losing day, or session, with the big, usually long dig out of the hole. It initially feels great. Like a win, even if you broke even or lost a little. But that is a false sense of achievement. And once you understand the big picture there is a danger associated with this "big dig out" that I have already discussed. Players usually show way to much, and often think that their losing buys some sort of immunity, when it doesn't. The results often are that you feel good that day and escape any kind of consequences, but those consequences are waiting for you on a return trip.

If a player is really feeling differently during his day or trip because of winning or losing, then he/she is not where he/she needs to be. You have got to take that emotion out of it. I just read a post/thread on another forum, that you may be familiar with about a guy trying to preserve a trip win. Made me cringe. Voodoo stuff!

Looking forward to other responses.
 

gronbog

Well-Known Member
#7
I will admit that, even as a student and researcher of the game, I hate being up for the whole trip and then losing it at the end. I end up feeling like something that I worked for has been taken from me. I would much rather break even via a series of mixed wins and losses or lose initially and then win it back.

However, I never let this influence the execution of my plan for the trip which leads to another thing that I hate about losing at the end of a trip, which is trying to explain to my wife why it was correct not to stop when I was ahead.
 

LC Larry

Well-Known Member
#8
I can see this being an issue to those that don't live near casino centric locations and have to travel to them, especially when expenses are added. But it shouldn't to those that do live near casinos (like kewlJ) and can practically go at will.
 

gronbog

Well-Known Member
#9
Well, it shouldn't matter at all and it doesn't if you don't give in to it. But we're all human and Don was asking which way was more satisfying and/or upsetting and it turns out that I do hate losing at the end more.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#11
KewlJ said:
Lost my next 2 sessions, both small losses and was now down, 12,650.
I find this statement interesting. In your previous paragraph, you mentioned being down 8875. So you lost ~2K in each of the 2 subsequent sessions and you call it a small loss.

Are you now playing at the black chip level, so a few K is a small loss? If not, why do you refer to it as a small loss?

Don, to address your question:
For me, the money of the daily grind doesn't matter. It's not uncommon that I might see a daily swing in my brokerage account of one or two orders of magnitude greater than what a daily casino win or loss might be. That being said, I find it more exasperating to have multiple sessions where I lose right off the bat, than to have a nice win and give it back at the end. In the former case, I might feel like I'm chasing and could potentially let my guard down and be less careful, and/or play longer than I should.
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#12
21forme said:
Are you now playing at the black chip level, so a few K is a small loss? If not, why do you refer to it as a small loss?
No. Same general limits that I have been playing for the better part of 10 years now. I am sure by now, you and everyone else on these forums, plus most pit critters in Vegas knows what levels I am talking about. :rolleyes: It is a level that I am comfortable with and is well tolerated. Although at (busy) times I am able to go above that.

21forme said:
I find this statement interesting. In your previous paragraph, you mentioned being down 8875. So you lost ~2K in each of the 2 subsequent sessions and you call it a small loss.
I guess it is all subjective. I mean a couple 2k losses equals the bankroll I started my career with 15 years ago. :eek: But now it is 4-5 max bet (occasionally fewer). I mean we have all lost 5 max bets on a single hand. I am not trivializing the amount. I was just trying to paint an accurate picture of events.

21forme said:
In the former case, I might feel like I'm chasing and could potentially let my guard down and be less careful, and/or play longer than I should.
This kind of self awareness and self examination is most imporatnt. I am not the least bit surprised you engage in such.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#13
Gotcha. Ventured over to the other forum you posted this on for the first time in many months. I don't know why you bother there. It's not an AP site. BTW, I'm curious about your other BJ play. If you're willing to tell me what it's about, feel free to email me.
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#14
21forme said:
Gotcha. Ventured over to the other forum you posted this on for the first time in many months. I don't know why you bother there. It's not an AP site. BTW, I'm curious about your other BJ play. If you're willing to tell me what it's about, feel free to email me.
I have already told you. You don't believe me. ;) (or don't believe there is an edge to be gained) ....there is. But it is not a big edge. It is compatible to card counting, but for those that think card counting boring and unexciting, well you should play this for a while. :oops: I anticipate going back more to good old (exciting) card counting in 2020. :D Maybe just mix it up on occasion.

Ya know I have done a bit of HCing, a number of years of part-time video poker advantage play, the big Six wheel, shuffle-tracking, and now this, all with limited success. But each time, I come back to card counting. I am a blackjack card counter at heart. Proud of it and love earning a living by that means. :D
 
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#15
I would say losing it all back at the end of the trip is more frustrating for me. But neither scenario is tons of fun lol.

But I agree with others, and just try to focus on EV and did I play well. Then let things shake out how they will.
Sometimes I try to play some "mental games" with myself...Like even trying to pretend that losing a few sessions in a row is "fun". Haha. I try to turn it around into excitement about which of the upcoming sessions will it be where I have the next big win...things like that.

And good advice from 21forme on those long, flat trips. Makes it harder to avoid chasing, or playing too long somewhere etc.
 

3aces

Active Member
#16
My failure to eliminate emotion involves trip outcomes. It’s a 4 hour flight for me and the return flight after a loss is unpleasant. I usually book 3
nights but if I get ahead by $3K - $4K ( 12-16 max bets) I quit playing and head home early. Conversely I do not employ a “stop loss”. My “stop win” habit has probably cost me some $ overall in my 900 hour career. But I benefit by avoiding over exposure and maybe back offs. I’ve only had 2 taps.
 

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#18
I don't feel any different either way, that I can remember. It's a matter of relief+disappointment vs. disappointment.

More recently, like 3aces, I may employ a bit of a "stop win" when traveling to Vegas, as the satisfaction of coming home a winner has value for me, even though it's not optimal. I'm mostly playing for kicks these days anyway; taking a job that pays $50/hr-ish to grind with drunks and smokers isn't as appealing as it once was. ($500/hr maybe I would!)
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#19
xengrifter said:
I am still trying to figure out what the weird part is??
It was unusual for me. I am finishing my 15th year of supporting myself from card counting, but it is not really fair to use that number as the early years were lower stakes. But basically the last 10 years have been roughly the same stakes. I play upwards of 300 days a year, and have never had a day that I lost over 5 figures and then won it back.

I do experience winning or losing five figure days maybe 8-10 times a year, almost month, but that is winning or losing five figures. Never have I both lost and won that amount in the same day. In fairness, the chance of that occurring is somewhat limited. I could possibly win 5 figures and then lose it later in the day (never happened), but for me to first lose 5 figures and then win it back as I did the other day requires replenishing my funds and usually I just don't bother. Usually if I lose 5 figures I am ready to call it a day.

So that was the weird part for me.....it has never happened in 10 years, close to 3000 days playing these stakes.
 
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