What's a fair game? Bring Back the Good Rules!

[jack.jackson]

Got an opinion of a fair game? Or what you may consider....a Challenge.

It seems to me, that the people In charge of 6/5 and CSMS SHOULD understand this!!! So If yout listening.... Listen up!!!(Like Ihate 17, onced said....The enemy is watching) If you want to make MORE $$$$, OFFER BETTER GAMES!!!

Most Counters learn just enough, to lose. Thats the simple truth! It has taken me many years to beat a face-up double-deck, game on a continous Level. I know what it takes to turn a 10$ loss, into a 100$ gain, and a 100$ loss, Into a 10$ gain, These are the kinda plays, that It takes for anyone to pose a long-term threat.

So I assure you, If you offer a Decent game, with decent pen. and decent rules, and with more players flocking to the table, the casinos profits will double.

Get Rid of CSMS and 6/5!!!(This ISNT Blackjack!!)

Offer Fair-games, to the player, where only the players with skill, pose a small threat.

To all the Dealers that may read this. Always give good PEN!!!

A fun challenging and fair-game, is as follows: 2D:NMSE,Table limit:MIN=20x,Max(10-200)60%penheads-up,80%fulltable,3/2,RSA,split upx4,S17,DAS.

Thats it! Not to good, not to Bad!

For any Fellow Members out there. What do you consider a fair-game?

 

[shadroch]

Interesting question.
Here are some random thoughts.
I play at El Cortez in Vegas frequently. They have DD H17,DOA,DAS and give about 75% penetration. This seems like a very fair game to me. You can get away with about a 1-8 spread,sometimes a bit more.
I think casinos should simply do away with $5 or less tables.These are throwbacks to the fifties when $5 was worth perhaps $20 today.I think players at higher stakes tables have to suffer some bad rules to subsidize the $5 tables.Eliminate them. Let low level players play video BJ if they must.

 

[sagefr0g]

Interesting question.
Here are some random thoughts.
......
I think casinos should simply do away with $5 or less tables.These are throwbacks to the fifties when $5 was worth perhaps $20 today.I think players at higher stakes tables have to suffer some bad rules to subsidize the $5 tables.Eliminate them. Let low level players play video BJ if they must.

whaaaaaaa ? lol geesh Shad a'int we all brothers. lighten up dude. leave some crumbs for us little guys.

 

[bj bob]

Interesting question.
Here are some random thoughts.
I play at El Cortez in Vegas frequently. They have DD H17,DOA,DAS and give about 75% penetration. This seems like a very fair game to me. You can get away with about a 1-8 spread,sometimes a bit more.
This sounds about right to me, but I would prefer to swap the S17 for H17 as well as LS.

 

[EasyRhino]

But let's be fair to the casino, if a casino is offering a S17 DAS LS game, especially with just a couple decks, their house edge vs. a BS player drops to pretty darn close to zero. Compared with virtually any other game, it's an inefficient use of floor space. The ONLY reason they can get away with it is because so many players are creating more disadvantage for themselves. (God bless 'em)

I'm not greedy, I'd be perfectly happy with a H17 DAS LS game, or a S17 game that gives up on something. Preferably with 80-90% penetration.

 

[moo321]

Casinos should hit soft 17, allow splitting and re-splitting, allow doubling on any, allow late surrender, and cut off one deck from a 6 deck game. Hitting 17 doesn't slow the game, splitting, doubling, and surrender allow ploppies to misuse those rules, while only giving maybe .5% to a good counter. Penetration just makes sense; even if you know a counter is at the table, you're generally better off giving good pen to the bad players to take more money from them.

 

[Playloud]

Interesting question.
Here are some random thoughts.
I play at El Cortez in Vegas frequently. They have DD H17,DOA,DAS and give about 75% penetration. This seems like a very fair game to me. You can get away with about a 1-8 spread,sometimes a bit more.
I think casinos should simply do away with $5 or less tables.These are throwbacks to the fifties when $5 was worth perhaps $20 today.I think players at higher stakes tables have to suffer some bad rules to subsidize the $5 tables.Eliminate them. Let low level players play video BJ if they must.

Funny. I was thinking they should offer MORE $5 tables. Last time I went to Vegas, I couldn't get a $5 table at the strip casino I was staying at, as there was only one. The table was full (with people waiting in line to play), but the $10 tables next to it had plenty of room. The $5 tables are in demand. Since I didn't want to play at a $10 table (I only brought $200 to play with), I went downtown, and played at the El Cortez (which is of course, a nicer game anyway).

There are plenty of Casinos that don't offer $5 games. Leave the ones that do alone.

 

[shadroch]

Funny. I was thinking they should offer MORE $5 tables. Last time I went to Vegas, I couldn't get a $5 table at the strip casino I was staying at, as there was only one. The table was full (with people waiting in line to play), but the $10 tables next to it had plenty of room. The $5 tables are in demand. Since I didn't want to play at a $10 table (I only brought $200 to play with), I went downtown, and played at the El Cortez (which is of course, a nicer game anyway).

There are plenty of Casinos that don't offer $5 games. Leave the ones that do alone.

$5 tables are a waste of floor space.A casino would make ooddles more money sticking six slot machines in the same space.I firmly believe that casinos that offer $5 tables end up with badrules on the higher tables to subsidize the lower stakes ones.
When I bought my first bar,one of the first things I did was eliminate tap beer. Instead of being able to drink for $1.50 a mug,it was now $3.50 a bottle.One of the tap drinkers came to me and said my actions were causing him and his friends to go drink across the street. I replied"Exactly".
I'm sorry,but bigtime casinos don't need people who come to Vegas with $200 to gamble and any accomidations they make for them is wasted,in my opinion.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Provide Good Rules and They Will Lose

The places with the best rules generally have the most action.

 

[InPlay]

Funny. I was thinking they should offer MORE $5 tables. Last time I went to Vegas, I couldn't get a $5 table at the strip casino I was staying at, as there was only one. The table was full (with people waiting in line to play), but the $10 tables next to it had plenty of room. The $5 tables are in demand. Since I didn't want to play at a $10 table (I only brought $200 to play with), I went downtown, and played at the El Cortez (which is of course, a nicer game anyway).

There are plenty of Casinos that don't offer $5 games. Leave the ones that do alone.

If you can only play ata $5 dollar table you should not be gambling. You are truly wasteing your time. Take your money and spend it on your wife and kids.

 

[sagefr0g]

If you can only play ata $5 dollar table you should not be gambling. You are truly wasteing your time. Take your money and spend it on your wife and kids.

lol maybe but sometimes it might just be a mental thing. you know your preferance as to risk and all. at least it might take ya longer to become one of those bust outs on the ssi dole.

 

[vonQuux]

If you can only play ata $5 dollar table you should not be gambling. You are truly wasteing your time. Take your money and spend it on your wife and kids.

That's a bit strident.

I'm a n00b. My bankroll is modest but it's not like I'm blowing rent money here. If $5 is my starting unit then 500x is $2,500 and 2.5k is a lot easier to scrape up than five. It's also a lot easier to sleep after losing if standard deviation decides to bite me in the ass.

Granted, I'll only be clocking $5/hr but at my level, but at this stage I'm not in it to make a living. Frankly I'd prefer to make my mistakes -- and trust me, I'm going to make them -- with red chips. Five bucks per bet is exactly how I'll be starting if I can find such a low stakes table.

You're telling legions of middle-income, fledgling AP's to get lost. Hardly encouraging.

vQ

 

[sagefr0g]

That's a bit strident.

I'm a n00b. My bankroll is modest but it's not like I'm blowing rent money here. If $5 is my starting unit then 500x is $2,500 and 2.5k is a lot easier to scrape up than five. ......

vQ

just as a point of interest say your playing a five dollar table and not wonging in. maybe play all but maybe you wong out as well some. then it may be a bit off to consider your unit $5 . thing being that you'd be betting your unit at a lot of zero and maybe some negative true counts. to where it might be more proper to consider your unit comming out when you actually have an advantage. but i do the same thing, ie. i call $5 my unit and i say i'm spreading say 1:10 even though i'm employing that unit at a lot of zero and negaitve true counts. point being that fiver isn't much of a unit when it's laid down on negative expectation bets.

 

[vonQuux]

just as a point of interest say your playing a five dollar table and not wonging in. maybe play all but maybe you wong out as well some. then it may be a bit off to consider your unit $5 . thing being that you'd be betting your unit at a lot of zero and maybe some negative true counts. to where it might be more proper to consider your unit comming out when you actually have an advantage. but i do the same thing, ie. i call $5 my unit and i say i'm spreading say 1:10 even though i'm employing that unit at a lot of zero and negaitve true counts. point being that fiver isn't much of a unit when it's laid down on negative expectation bets.

Trust me, I intend to wong in and out as much as I think I can get away with but even if I do, I'm looking for minimal exposure while I've got my training wheels on.

RoR is a mathematical reality and if I want to insure disaster I'll definitely color up so I can live up to InPlay's standard of who should be at the tables.

vQ

 

[InPlay]

Trust me, I intend to wong in and out as much as I think I can get away with but even if I do, I'm looking for minimal exposure while I've got my training wheels on.

RoR is a mathematical reality and if I want to insure disaster I'll definitely color up so I can live up to InPlay's standard of who should be at the tables.

vQ

Your ROR on you time will be greater if you are delevering pizza then playing 5 dollar tables.

 

[jack.jackson]

The places with the best rules generally have the most action.

Who's this Avenger, that's speaks a shadow of allegiance? Identify yourself!

 

[vonQuux]

Your ROR on you time will be greater if you are delevering pizza then playing 5 dollar tables.

RoR = Risk of Ruin
ROI = Return on Investment

vQ

 

[Kasi]

but i do the same thing, ie. i call $5 my unit and i say i'm spreading say 1:10 even though i'm employing that unit at a lot of zero and negaitve true counts. point being that fiver isn't much of a unit when it's laid down on negative expectation bets.

That's the right thing to do - your lowest bet is your unit.

So with a $10K roll spreading 1-16 playing all hands you might need a 2000 unit roll to keep ROR reasonable.

Maybe you choose to only wong in at TC+2, spread 1-2 or 1-3 and leave if below that. Now maybe the same 10K roll is a 100 unit roll because you enter with a $100 bet.

Betting the first way your roll might not support a $10 min but you would still be playing a +EV game at the $5 table.

A $5 table probably has a max limit of at least $500 anyway so you could play either way. But if the $10 and higher tables did not allow mid-shoe entry, then of course the $5 table can be taken advantage of if it allowed it.

Just because it's a $5 table doesn't mean you have to ever bet $5 or even necessarily that you couldn't make the same money at it as you would at a $100 min table.

 

[SPX]

When I bought my first bar,one of the first things I did was eliminate tap beer. Instead of being able to drink for $1.50 a mug,it was now $3.50 a bottle.

Well that's just assholian. Who does that? Life isn't all about money, after all. . .

I will admit I pretty much ALWAYS drink from a bottle because I pretty much ALWAYS drink Corona, but what the hell kind of bar doesn't offer tap beer? Were I a tap drinker, I would go across the street, too.

 

[SPX]

You're telling legions of middle-income, fledgling AP's to get lost. Hardly encouraging.

Agreed. The $5 table is a mainstay for a reason. I have almost always played at the $5 level and would be quite irritated if all $5 tables disappeared.

Hell, even though I don't utilize it much, I get a little annoyed that there aren't more $3 tables!