What's so "evil" about splitting 10s?

[ThunderWalk]

I don't understand why people get so crazy about splitting 10s. How does it change the game, or interfere with other players?

I have a friend who will split 10s when playing heads-up against the dealer, but because others make such a fuss, he'll stop if someone else sits down at the table.

To me, it seems like that old "sacred order of the cards" myth. The only thing I can see wrong with it is when players are dealt more 10 cards and they continue splitting them... digging themselves a hole they can never crawl out of. But, that's their problem, not mine. I've also heard it's one way of attracting unwanted attention from the Pit.

What's so "evil" about splitting 10s?

 

[RJT]

All the usual myths that the ploppies cling to. Splitting tens for most people is throwing away a good hand, messing with the order or just plain bringing bad luck for the table.
For the pit there are only two players that split tens. Complete idiots, or people who really know what they are doing. One the encourage, the other they want rid of. Either way they examine your play to determin which you are.

RJT.

 

[ScottH]

Well, the thing is, in the LONG RUN what you do doesn't affect them, but in the short run you do. You can take the ten that they wanted on the double down, cause the dealer to draw to 21, etc. You can try say it didnt matter, but if you wouldn't have split them tens something else would have happened. It would all work out in the longrun, but they don't care about that.

 

[Mimosine]

while it goes against ploppy logic to split tens, in general from what i've read you will win about ~~45% of your earnings on 20's. hands like 17-19 aren't really good hands.

so it actually goes against all logic, unless certain factors are in place, like knowing that you will get two pairs of 10's, from 1.

 

[ChefJJ]

Well, the thing is, in the LONG RUN what you do doesn't affect them, but in the short run you do. You can take the ten that they wanted on the double down, cause the dealer to draw to 21, etc. You can try say it didnt matter, but if you wouldn't have split them tens something else would have happened. It would all work out in the longrun, but they don't care about that.

Got a great story about splitting 10s:

Last year, me and some good friends met up in Vegas for some debauchery and NFL football betting. Sunday night after the games, we were feeling nice from a great session and last-minute victories. It was getting somewhat late, and my boy and I were playing blackjack at the Stratosphere at a table with one other person. Having a great time playing and shooting the bull with the dealer and floorman, he was doing well at being the drunk guy while I played.

Eventually, the other guy left and the table filled in with 4 people who were together. My friend gets a 20...decides that he doesn't care and splits them. No big deal, he won one and busted on another, and ended up helping the dealer to bust...but some eyes were rolling on the other players' eyes. Couldn't have been 2 hands later, 20 again. Same deal, except he wins both hands, and the dealer draws to 19 (where she would have busted) and collects 3 out of the 4 people's bets. Didn't take long for steam to pour out of their heads and color ups to happen.

Bottom line is, if the rules permit it, you can do it. In my friend's case, he isn't an AP and just knows the minimum about the game. The first time, he actually "helped" the players (he was at 3rd base), but there was no tolerance when he "hurt" the players! Such is life...some people just get things in their head like "splitting 10s is bad" and stay with it. It's like the superstition that a 7 is coming when a die goes off the table. Many people only remember the bad stuff.

good luck

 

[EasyRhino]

Besides the sacred flow of the cards, which is inescapable, I think the reason that splitting 10's attracts so much ploppy ire is because it's one of the few plays that seperates a ploppy from someone who's just playing the game for the first time with zero prior knowledge.

 

[blackjackmarc]

Mathematically - splitting 10's is a losing bet. That's why it's bad.

As for the cry babies at the table that fuss over another players play - tell those babies to go play basketball or soccer if they wanted a team sport. There are few things I hate more than people who worry about other players play at a BJ table. This game is full of "shoulda, coulda woulda" with or without people making moves that are not by the book. Those geeks just like having someone to blame that's all.

 

[21forme]

Yeah, don't you just love it when someone waits to see the first card in the next hand, then announces what everyone's hand would have been if you didn't do what you did?

 

[ChefJJ]

Yeah, don't you just love it when someone waits to see the first card in the next hand, then announces what everyone's hand would have been if you didn't do what you did?

Especially when playing 3rd base, which is a decent spot to count from, people do a lot of "analyzing" of your moves and the impact it had on their cashola. They are often quick to forget when you "helped" the table, but man can you kill 'em!

good luck

 

[Ace Carolla]

Mathematically - splitting 10's is a losing bet. That's why it's bad.

As for the cry babies at the table that fuss over another players play - tell those babies to go play basketball or soccer if they wanted a team sport. There are few things I hate more than people who worry about other players play at a BJ table. This game is full of "shoulda, coulda woulda" with or without people making moves that are not by the book. Those geeks just like having someone to blame that's all.

You are correct sir!

 

[darrislance]

Splitting 10's

A few days ago I was playing at a local casino and the situation was favorable to spit 10's. I was playing from the middle position and drew a pair of 10's vs. dealer's 6. I split them and drew two more 10s, and stood on both. The guy at third base stood on his 16. Dealer flipped a 10 for his hole card then a 2, for an 18. All of a sudden the dealer and third baseman went into 5 minute lecture on how it was the wrong play and it would cost me in the long run, etc etc. I just sat there smiling enjoying the sermon that was taking place. Finally, I just said, "Well guys, I guess I just felt lucky." As I played dumb, I smiled and thought to myself, "If only they knew, what I knew."

I cost the third baseman about $200 and probably cost the dealer a tip, but the lecture was priceless, but it never fails, there is always somebody out there ready to give playing advice.

Just wondering if anyone else gets tired of getting advice from other players or dealers.

 

[EasyRhino]

there is always somebody out there ready to give playing advice.

Whoah, hey now, you can't ever expect anyone to give playing advice based on card counting. Because even if they were correct, it would be destructive to give inconsistentint information to a civilian. And standing on tens is the best basic strategy ("flow of the cards" be damned)

Just wondering if anyone else gets tired of getting advice from other players or dealers.

Oh yeah. Although I do grade the quality of people's advice and rank them by wrongness in order to at least make it interesting.

 

[rogue1]

there are just a few things I can't stand

and #1 is the "coulda', woulda', shoulda' people at my table.

 

[Cardcounter]

Why would you want to break a hand that wins more often than not!!!

When you split 10's you are only hurting your self. A 20 has at worst only has a 12% chance of losing. Mathimatically splitting 20 is worse than throwing away pocket aces before the flop when somebody puts you all in. Sure sometimes they will draw out on you and you will lose but you have to gamble in that spot!

 

[ChefJJ]

When you split 10's you are only hurting your self. A 20 has at worst only has a 12% chance of losing. Mathimatically splitting 20 is worse than throwing away pocket aces before the flop when somebody puts you all in. Sure sometimes they will draw out on you and you will lose but you have to gamble in that spot!

At a certain index, though, splitting 10s will give you a higher return in the long run where that situation arises. By getting more money out there in that situation, you may not have a higher percentage of winning than if you stayed on 20, but you have to calculate the extra money out there too.

good luck

 

[Renzey]

Splitting 10s Philosophy

At a table where all three players were having a good time, one player asked the other two; "Hey, you know when it's the right time to split a pair of 10s?" One of them responded, "When you're mad at your money??". [/I]"No", the first player answered, "It's when you're at a full table and your buddy needs a seat!". Everybody chuckled in affirmation and the fun'n games continued.

True Story

 

[darrislance]

Whoah, hey now, you can't ever expect anyone to give playing advice based on card counting. Because even if they were correct, it would be destructive to give inconsistentint information to a civilian. And standing on tens is the best basic strategy ("flow of the cards" be damned)

Oh yeah. Although I do grade the quality of people's advice and rank them by wrongness in order to at least make it interesting.

As a general rule I don't give advice to anyone at the table, but if someone asked me whether or not to split 10's, I would tell them no. Now having said that, there are times when splitting 10's is mathematically correct. However, I don't need someone at the table lecturing me on how to play. It is one thing to ask for advice, but to volunteer advice is a completely different animal.

I do assess the playing styles of the other players at the table, but I don't need them telling me what the right plays are. I can get all the information I need from them through personal observation. To each his own, I suppose.

*Don't get me wrong, I am thankful for each and every bad player I see, as we all should be.

 

[ihate17]

Did the count call for re-splitting

A few days ago I was playing at a local casino and the situation was favorable to spit 10's. I was playing from the middle position and drew a pair of 10's vs. dealer's 6. I split them and drew two more 10s, and stood on both. The guy at third base stood on his 16. Dealer flipped a 10 for his hole card then a 2, for an 18. All of a sudden the dealer and third baseman went into 5 minute lecture on how it was the wrong play and it would cost me in the long run, etc etc. I just sat there smiling enjoying the sermon that was taking place. Finally, I just said, "Well guys, I guess I just felt lucky." As I played dumb, I smiled and thought to myself, "If only they knew, what I knew."

I cost the third baseman about $200 and probably cost the dealer a tip, but the lecture was priceless, but it never fails, there is always somebody out there ready to give playing advice.

Just wondering if anyone else gets tired of getting advice from other players or dealers.

Just wondering if the 2 tens you drew brought the count under the indice for splitting tens, if not you should have split them again. That really would have brought attention (perhaps unwanted) to you.
Since blackjack is the furthest thing from being a team sport, you increased your chip pile by splitting and should have no worry about third base, because if he won and you lost, he would not have covered part of your loss (but if it was a team game he would have)

Costing the dealer a tip: I do not know if you toke, but besides the dealer not getting a toke from third base, the dealer by giving you a lecture should have guaranteed himself a lifetime of no tokes from you, just a dummy up and deal.

Advice on the table: Worthwhile advice you should never get tired of receiving. Unfortunately worthwhile advice is extremely rare on a blackjack table. Worthless advice, by the nature of it being worthless should be completely ignored and if possible not bother you at all.

The last good piece of advice I received on a table from a dealer or player. Dealer tells me that he thinks the pit is having someone at the table evaluated by the eye. I leave 4 hands later. Best playing advice I have ever received from a blackjack dealer.

ihate17

 

[darrislance]

Just wondering if the 2 tens you drew brought the count under the indice for splitting tens, if not you should have split them again. That really would have brought attention (perhaps unwanted) to you.

One split was all that the situation called for. The dealer asked if I wanted to split again and I said, "no, I think that's enough." He replied, "Oh, so NOW a pair of 10's is good enough." I just shook my head yes, with a smile. I possibly could have split them again, but I didn't want any extra attention.

Don't get me wrong, I get tips for different dealers all the time and I'm very gracious for it, but for this guy to completely stop the game was uncalled for. I almost felt like they were chastising me.

The last good piece of advice I received on a table from a dealer or player. Dealer tells me that he thinks the pit is having someone at the table evaluated by the eye. I leave 4 hands later. Best playing advice I have ever received from a blackjack dealer.

ihate17

Thank you for the advice. Now that is information that I can use. I am reasonably new to the game of blackjack. I've always been more of a student of the game more than a player However, I've spent the better part of the last two years preparing myself to play the game of blackjack. As I trained and trained I never felt I was ready for the casino environment as a result I probably stretched out my preparation longer than what was actually needed. Now all the decisions are almost automatic.

Don't get me wrong, AP is extremely taxing on the brain and very tiresome. I do not play professionally, but more for self-satisfaction, because gambling isn't fun if you're playing at a disadvantage. But, it has never been about the money, it's much more than that.

*But having a few extra $$ to spend is certainly a nice litte bonus.