When is camouflage necessary?

[21forme]

When do you modify your counting strategy ("dumb" plays, not increasing bets unless a prior win, etc.)?
a) all the time
b) only when the pit is watching
c) never

Who in the casino hierarchy is the first to identify a potential counter? The dealer, the pit or the eye in the sky?

If the PC is busy at another table, do you feel you can get away with pretty much anything?

 

[EasyRhino]

It really, really, really depends on the stakes you're playing, and the kind of place you're at.

If you're playing at low stakes, you can quite possibly get away with anything and everything. Unless you're in Reno, where even $50 is a big bet for some places.

And your general operational approach to the game can effect things. If you're in Vegas, keeping sessions short, not giving your name, and moving from place to place, you can get away with little to no camo, mainly because there's not enough time for them to really gauge your play.

To me, the most important thing about camo plays is to know which plays you're going to make, and how often you're going to make them, in advance. Some plays can be very expensive, especially if you have a big bet out. Failure to split eights, for instance, could be very costly. Standing on 16 vs 10, in contrast, isn't so bad. Blackjack Attack and Burning the Tables in Vegas both talk about this concept of "cheap" playing mistakes.

edit: oh, your big question is when, and that's tougher. I'm just a neophyte here, but the reason it's tough is because the heavy-lifting for counter-catching at all but the tiniest places is done by surveillance. How do you know if they're watching you? You don't. But they might start watching you for a few reasons:
1) You're betting the largest amount in the pit
2) You have a huge buy-in
3) The pit critter requests surveillance on you after a bet jump
4) They stumble across you or are bored

Of course, if a pit critter is actively hawking your game, you know at least somebody is watching, but it might be almost too late, they might have surveillance clocking you as well.

 

[moo321]

I'm generally not worried about pit bosses. Today most bosses are complete retards; few of them even know basic strategy. Their job is to track the black chips, make sure no one is stealing, and call surveillance on anything suspicious. They don't have the skills to evaluate your play (and surveillance may not either).

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Today I actually was talking to a Pit Boss about music while I was counting and ramping my bets.

Then again I play for pretty low stakes, but I still find it funny.

 

[ScottH]

Today I actually was talking to a Pit Boss about music while I was counting and ramping my bets.

Something I've been wondering, can you bring in your Ipod and listen to it at the table? I've seen poker players do it, but is that a good idea for an AP? Could they be annoying to you and claim you are using a device to cheat or something? I've just been curious because music would make the time go by a little faster, and it could give you a reason to not talk to people.

 

[EasyRhino]

But you'll look like a poker player. And no one likes poker players.

 

[sagefr0g]

But you'll look like a poker player. And no one ikes poker players.

heh, heh i think its no one likes poker players that wear head sets.

 

[21forme]

I'm surprised they allow it in poker and would be more surpsied to see it alloweed at a BJ table. Seems like it would be too easy to use a communications device that looks like an Ipod.

 

[Kasi]

To me, the most important thing about camo plays is to know which plays you're going to make, and how often you're going to make them, in advance. Some plays can be very expensive, especially if you have a big bet out. Failure to split eights, for instance, could be very costly. Standing on 16 vs 10, in contrast, isn't so bad. .

Well, like u say it depends how often you will be making them and what your bet will be.

But, if I'm flat betting and playing BS, I'd much rather never split 8,8 vs 9,10 & A than always stand on every 16 vs 10.

 

[halcyon1234]

Headphones and the like aren't allowed in Canadian casinos, even at the poker table. I'm not sure about non-Canadian ones.

You could try it, but I'd think it might draw some unwanted heat. After all, the only reason to listen to headphones is to pass the time while you go through the grind. And you only grind things out when you have to work on something. What are you working on? As far as the pit knows (or should know) you're a ploppy playing for fun/to get lucky-- not someone skilled working a long shift at shafting the casino.

 

[darco77]

I contemplated the idea of using an iPod at the blackjack table, but came to the same conclusion. Even if they allowed it, it wouldn't send the best signal. Appearing to "kill time on the job" is not the best look for an AP.