Your Definition of a "Unit"

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monte_vv

Active Member
#1
#1
What is the general consensus of the definition of a unit? I believe most people consider it your minimum bet, thus if you are spreading $5-$50 your unit is $5.

An alternative approach that I use for myself is to consider a unit to be what I bet at my minimum advantage (positive EV), thus although I have a spread of $5-$50, I would bet $10 at the first count with a positve EV, thus $10 is my unit. So the way I look at it, I spread from .5 units to 5 units, same 10-1 spread.

It doesn't really matter what one you use, but as I read posts, and people speak of units, is it universally agreed that a unit is your absolute minimum bet?

Thanks.
 
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Bojack1

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
A betting unit does not have to be the minimum you wager at the table. Its common for most do that but its not the only way to look at what your unit is. Your unit should be based on the size of your bankroll and the risk you are willing to take with playing. If for example you have bankroll to play a $25 unit with what you deem an acceptable risk, you can sit at a 10 dollar table and play the table minimum until the count signals an advantage and calls for your unit sized bet to be placed. Now if the advantage increases you can move your bet up in unit size increments as your predetermined spread calls for. Playing this way actually increases spread, and helps those that tend to play more negative counts or don't wong as much. It should also be noted that drastic color changes in chips while betting can bring attention to you, so you should beware if you are jumping drastic from small red to more than a few green. You could actually, keep a unit spread of say 1-6, but a bet spread of 1-15 with this type of play. It may not offer the optimal EV, but its a winning game and for those who tend to play all or close to all, it actually helps a lot. I never condone sitting at a table too long or playing long sessions anyway, so if you choose to, be creative with how you put your bets out there to keep it looking natural. And don't waste whole units in negative counts.
 
iCountNTrack

iCountNTrack

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Conventionally, you divide your bankroll into a certain number of betting units. The number of betting units in your bankroll will depend on the game you are playing AND the risk of ruin (probability of going bankrupt before reaching a certain goal) that you accept to play with. For instance, let’s say you have a game where you bankroll consists of 800 betting units and your risk of ruin is 10%, if you find a better game you can divide your bankroll into 500 betting units (increasing your bet sizes, i.e winning more) while having the same risk.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
I count my units as $10, but will bet as low as $3 where I can. Lower if I could find a table with lower minimums and good rules.
For reasons I can't properly describe, I consider my BR as $1,000 and a unit is 1% of my BR.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
cc218 said:
when i first read the title of this thread i thought i stumbled into the wrong message board
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Unit Handbook: Warning. Keep unit clean and free of obstruction to prevent malfunction. :grin::whip:
 
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bigplayer

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Re: Definition of a unit

whatever floats your boat. Most players simply divide their top bet by 4 to come up with unit size and just bet the True Count -1 in their unit size. Ideally when you don't have an advantage (less than +1 at most games) you want to bet as low as you can get away with....(Often $0). If you have a good ruled game you can increase your unit somewhat and in a bad ruled game make your unit a tad smaller.
 
creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
#9
#9
Welcome

bigplayer said:
whatever floats your boat. Most players simply divide their top bet by 4 to come up with unit size and just bet the True Count -1 in their unit size. Ideally when you don't have an advantage (less than +1 at most games) you want to bet as low as you can get away with....(Often $0). If you have a good ruled game you can increase your unit somewhat and in a bad ruled game make your unit a tad smaller.
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Welcome Bigplayer.:)

CP
 
M

MAZ

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
bigplayer said:
Most players simply divide their top bet by 4 to come up with unit size and just bet the True Count -1 in their unit size.
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No this is not what most players do. TC -1 bet spread is a safe but less than optimal spread most famously used by the MIT teams years ago. Dividing your top bet by 4 to find unit size is also not a very good idea for most games. It may be useful in a SD game if you went about finding your max bet the proper way, a 1-4 spread there could be ok. Anything else is not a good idea. Lazy thinking, leads to light pockets.
 
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tripsix

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Unit definition and increase of variance by betting less than 1 unit.

By definition the "unit" would be the smallest bet made. That's how I see it.
A little more interesting thought is for those who bet less than their betting unit at 0 or negative counts. It transitions your spread to more of a wonging approach. Which increases your variance towards that of a pure wonging type play. I use sims to figure my win rate and wong out on negative counts of -1 or -2 depending on the pen/depth. If I bet less than a unit, the sims would not be accurate.
I believe the whole unit bet at low counts actually smooths the SD curve and keeps variance lower. If your "ideal unit" as defined by Bojack is larger than the table minimum, be sure your BR can withstand the larger variance/SD.
Please consider the above a working hypothesis and subject to improvement.
Good Cards.
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
monte_vv said:
is it universally agreed that a unit is your absolute minimum bet?Thanks.
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Heck I don't know. To me it is. Not that one has to I guess but, I think most sims will assume the min bet is a "unit".?

So, to me, if one sometimes bets $10 with $1k and sometimes bets $3 with $1k, one is sometimes playing with 100 units and sometimes with 333 units in their roll.

To me it would be time to run 2 sims lol.

I just can't imagine one would be playing with the same risk in each case if one played $1MM rounds each way sort of thing.

Whatever - I just have to stick with this "sim" stuff and what it tells me to expect from every different way I play lol. If my sim is assuming my min bet to determine total units in roll, why worry ?> - just go with it?!
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
A unit is the base or foundational amount that you bet. If you vary it, you don't really have a defined unit. For sim purposes, if you usually bet $5 in negative territory, but sometimes bet $3, you would use $5 as your unit. The $3 bet is equivalent to a partial wonging out (2/5 to be exact). It does help minimize your -EV in negative counts and increase your overall advantage. If you usually bet $3 an sometimes bet $5 in negative territory, your unit is $3 and you are raising your bet inappropriately for counting purposes, which you can chalk up to a masking technique. I don't now if Qfit's sims can handle all this, especially if you vary the bet indiscriminately. If you always raise your bet to $5 or lower your bet to $3 at a preselected level, then I think it is probably sim-able with current software. Just a thought.
 
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assume_R

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
aslan said:
If you usually bet $3 an sometimes bet $5 in negative territory, your unit is $3 and you are raising your bet inappropriately for counting purposes, which you can chalk up to a masking technique.
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That's a good description aslan, I like that! If you are able to play at a $3 min bet table and are sometimes betting $5 at negative TC's, you better have a good reason such as cover, otherwise it's not optimal. If you are doing that, then you could say that your unit would be $3, and if your max bet is $50, you are using a non-optimal 1-17.7 spread, which can be simmed.

aslan said:
If you always raise your bet to $5 or lower your bet to $3 at a preselected level, then I think it is probably sim-able with current software. Just a thought.
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Just to describe it for some who aren't familiar with qfit's software, the way to do that would be to define a custom betting spread, with a $3 unit, and @ TC <= -2, for example, you will type in 1 units as your bet ($3), at TC -1 you will type in 1.67 units as your bet ($5), at TC +1, for example you will type in 3.33 units as your bet ($10) , etc.
 
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bjcount

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Bojack: If for example you have bankroll to play a $25 unit with what you deem an acceptable risk, you can sit at a 10 dollar table and play the table minimum until the count signals an advantage and calls for your unit sized bet to be placed. Now if the advantage increases you can move your bet up in unit size increments as your predetermined spread calls for. Playing this way actually increases spread,
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This has been my MO for the past few months. When conditions are right to play at the quarters, thats where you'll find me but when it's not and conditions are better at $10-$15 (many more tables to choose from and less people), then my spread just blares like an inferno going out 1-30+ with much shorter table stays.

BJC
 
K

Kenneth

Member
#16
#16
Maybe I'm sliding towards error, but the definition of unit is not important so long as the terms remain consistent in calculations because it's the numbers that are of practical use rather than concepts; how would you simulate a concept?

In the case of $10 min bet with $25 unit, the minimum bet would be .4 unit whereas a bet of $25 with both min bet and bet unit of $10 would be 2.5 units.

Thinking of speed limits on the road may help. 25mph limit doesn't mean that the unit of increment in speed is 25mph.
 
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