6:5 Blackjack is awesome!!

Put it this way. You would need a +4 TC before you even had the advantage.

I would appreciate it if I could hear more constructive criticisms and responses that showed logical reasoning instead of huffy, crossed arms, nose up opinions on this matter. Responses showing equations as to why 6:5 is no good or that it can be beaten with modification are desired here. Thank you.

Did you read Ken's response and mine, we showed you with very simple math why you should avoid playing 6:5 games, you are giving away 1.4% of your ev. This game is so horrible it is twice as bad as a H17 8D game.

With a decent penetration and bet spread, the game is beatable but that is a whole other story...

I would appreciate it if I could hear more constructive criticisms and responses that showed logical reasoning instead of huffy, crossed arms, nose up opinions on this matter. Responses showing equations as to why 6:5 is no good or that it can be beaten with modification are desired here. Thank you.

Aside from the math aspect of 6:5... I 'll be willing to wager you won't be able to last longer than a candle in the wind with a spread like your talking about in any single deck game.... unless your losing your derriere.


P.S.
PM me the store name if you can spread like that and get away with it. :laugh:

It seems to me that 6:5 is not all as bad as APs make them out to be. Yes, I understand why not being able to hit split aces is disadvantageous for the player. It should be obvious really. Most rules and variations make sense as to why they can help or hurt you. But 6:5? You are still getting paid, plus 20% more. Unlike a rule such as "dealer wins all pushes." Or even a typical rule, like the "No hitting split aces" How and who came up with the calculation that 6:5 blackjack gives the house a 1%+ edge? It's not taking away money, or allowing you not to win. Granted you win a lessor amount, but it is not a loss, nor keeping you from making a win. Someone please explain this to me. I am a noob, I don't have deep understandings behind esoteric mathematical branches or theories.

For all you experts, can 6:5 BJ be beaten by using a 1-50 spread at all without heat?

Well, I would say thank you for advice. Thank you for logical answers on the mathematical aspect of the game. But you can keep your opinions about everything else. This is a business, and you can run your business your way, and I'll run it my way.

Yes, it is taking away money. "GRANTED you win a lesser amount." Exactly. A lot lesser amount. Imagine your average bet is $20. You get shorted $6 on every untied BJ.

Good, I just wanted to make clear that it is not putting me in the red. That was the whole purpose of this thread really. I wanted to know if it puts you in the red, or if it just keeps you from maximizing your profits.

You played 2-deck? Really?

Yes really, all the SD tables were full

You probably got lost.

Wow, you're really funny. you shoulda been a comedian! I went back to him to confront him on his lie. He had nothing to say.

I find this hard to believe. Was the lady from Pechanga? For smaller stakes, a tripling of the bet barely raise an eyebrow. They certainly wouldn't sweat it, unless you picked the worst possible pit crew, or had the worst possible act, but that title is already claimed.

Believe it. I was playing green chips and a $75 bet made her lose her s#@$.

Your act and loudness has nothing to do with it. You get away with a large spread because you are an unknown player. In places where I am unknown, I, too, can get away with murder, regardless of act.

Wait, didn't you just say that me having the worst act probably clued her in to me being a counter? So now, my act has nothing to do with me getting away with a large spread? Which is it? You're just changing your opinion when you see fit to support your argument.

You are tipping too much.

Again, you can run your business the way you want to, and what's a red chip tip when I win a $300 bet? $5 to keep her mouth shut about a 1-20 spread is cheap. I got this advice reading Lance Humble's "Worlds greatest blackjack book" You should read it sometime.

At Binion's, you could have flirted with handlebar Peter, but alas, he appears to be gone. Flirting with dealers is of limited value. Their powers are limited. The greatest service they can provide is keeping their mouths shut about what they see. When you see a dealer get tapped out and go straight to the break room without speaking to any boss, that's the best possible dealer. The best reason to flirt with a dealer would be, um, nonpecuniary.

So you agree with my point that you have to get on the dealer's good side so that they don't tell the pit boss about you. Which, by the way, the Pit bosses are another group of people you gotta work over. lady pit bosses like being flirted with last time I checked. There is a book by Ian Anderson called "burning the tables in Blackjack" foreword by Stanford Wong. Not a good writer, but he goes at great lengths to talk about how important it is to be personable to casino personnel if you want to have longevity there. As a matter of fact, there is a casino that I go to that has a regular player that just screams counter. Wears dark sunglasses and a hat, chats with me about the finer mathematical points of the Basic strategy chart, varies his bets the same time I do, except he's a complete jerk to the pit bosses and the dealers. Who do you think is gonna last longer there, me or him?

Advice from dealers is worth less than worthless.

Again, you can keep your opinions, but I do respect your logical answers. You can't tell me there aren't even a few dealers out there that count cards? Every dealer I know has basic strategy memorized. This is their full time job, I know they've seen every act in the book, every cover play, every spread, and every level of counter out there. Granted there are dumb dealers, but there are quite a few you have to listen to. They're smarter than you think.

(Dead link: http://www.worldgameprotection.com/r...ting-flyer.pdf)

He wasn't giving you good BJ advice; he was flirting with you.

Comedic genius, really.

Grosjean [using his best Karl Malone imitation] would not advise you to play 6:5, except that the game's low speed might help you lose slower. Grosjean likes to check games that are CONSIDERED to be sucker games, but are in fact massively vulnerable with the right methods. Counting 6:5 is NOT the unturned stone. 6:5 is NOT massively vulnerable to counting.

There are two problems for the counter: the player's initial disadvantage to overcome is greater, and the edge does not respond as quickly to increases in the count. In geometry terms, if we plot expectation on the Y-axis as a function of the count on the X-axis, we will see that the line has been shifted downward, AND has been flattened.

So hear is where I will start to listen. But I did run 6:5 SD through CVData simulator and for sure the win rate is low. $18 playing hi opt. BUT that is about the same win rate as playing 6 deck with favorable conditions. So for now, if I had to choose playing a shoe or a bad SD game, the win rate/hr would be about the same. If you would like to disagree with me on this matter, I'd love to hear it. I think this 6:5 is a sour point for APs because it cuts profits. You know what else cuts profits? Adding decks. When Ed thorp wrote "beat the dealer" Casinos scrambled to figure out how to put the edge back in their favor. They came up with adding decks. So counters responded by coming up with the hi lo count. Now casinos are coming up with 6:5 payout. My point is, this is a war, a business war. You gotta always stay ahead and come up with counter measures to survive. Someone builds a better mousetrap, we build a tougher mouse. Nothing good has ever come from people always accepting the status quo. Progression always comes from thinking differently. As I am trying, and with that, there will be the naysayers and the old timey folks who don't want to listen or be offended at the very thought of a new idea. I'm too new to this counting business to come up with brilliant remedies, but I wanted to get the ball rolling and get more minds involved on this problem. If I made enemies, so be it. So did Galileo, Aristotle, Einstein, and all the other great thinkers that progressed us forward.

I'd like to get to James Grosjean's level. He likes going to "unbeatable" games as defined by APs and the casino and finding ways to beat them.

Again, you can run your business the way you want to, and what's a red chip tip when I win a $300 bet?

I got this advice reading Lance Humble's "Worlds greatest blackjack book" You should read it sometime.

Which, by the way, the Pit bosses are another group of people you gotta work over.

Every dealer I know has basic strategy memorized.

So hear is where I will start to listen. But I did run 6:5 SD through CVData simulator and for sure the win rate is low. $18 playing hi opt. BUT that is about the same win rate as playing 6 deck with favorable conditions.

My point is, this is a war, a business war. You gotta always stay ahead and come up with counter measures to survive.

...I have never met a dealer who knew proper basic strategy at any casino game. I’ve heard many other players confirm this experience. The dealers are only trained to deal the game, and often not very well at that. I've seen gamblers who have been playing for 20 years and don't know a single thing about the game. Dealers are the same way. Most of what they learn while dealing is the usual bad advice they hear from the degenerate players. I don't think I've ever received good advice from a dealer....

It seems to me that 6:5 is not all as bad as APs make them out to be. Yes, I understand why not being able to hit split aces is disadvantageous for the player. It should be obvious really. Most rules and variations make sense as to why they can help or hurt you. But 6:5? You are still getting paid, plus 20% more. Unlike a rule such as "dealer wins all pushes." Or even a typical rule, like the "No hitting split aces" How and who came up with the calculation that 6:5 blackjack gives the house a 1%+ edge? It's not taking away money, or allowing you not to win. Granted you win a lessor amount, but it is not a loss, nor keeping you from making a win. Someone please explain this to me. I am a noob, I don't have deep understandings behind esoteric mathematical branches or theories.