A little help please.

I am new to this site in regards to posting, but have read numerous postings here about counting and obviously, blackjack. I'm 19 years old and have a strong interest in blackjack, and everything about it. I'm learning to count using the the general HI/LO method. I just have some confusion about transferring the running count to the true count. I know there is some division done, but I got confused about whether you use the fraction of the number of cards that are going to be used, but haven't yet.....or the cards that are behind the separater that AREN'T going to be used? Be on the light side if I am sounding stupid.....because I haven't played a whole lot of shoe games......(Yeah, I quit using CSMs..I know, I know). A little help on this would be appreciated. Also since I'm not of age to get into most casinos.....there are only 2 in Michigan that have the age requirement of 18.....but the only shoe games are in high stakes.....($25-$5,000) (6 deck shoe, DAS, double any 2 cards, split up to 3 times, etc.).....(I only plan to play here when I acheive my counting goals and get experienced). I was wondering how I should calculate my ROR....let's say my bankroll is $10,000. Also, a question for the pros: When you play, what is your goal for the day? Do you just play until you get tired? Or do you have a set goall, let's say double your money, or lose a certain amount of units? Like I said I am an amateur trying to learn from the pros, and please excuse my lack of counting knowledge....I'm just getting started and would appreciate some help. Thanks.

kewedian just passed a law that you can play when your 19 and they got a couple casinos around nothern and southern michigan.. go online and search.. and about division.. take your running count divided by the number of decks left in the shoe to give you your true count.. so 4 decks have been played and there are two left in a six deck shoe.. say the running count is 9...9/2 is 4.5 which gives you a .5 percent advantage over the casino..

No that would give you a 2% advantage buddy. Also most pros go and play for a predetermined amount of time and then quit. If they win too much then they tend to stop so as to not draw attention, and if they lose a ton, they like to stop as to draw attention to their huge loss.

With a bankroll of $10,000 you can afford a max bet of $100 with a 1% risk of ruin. That's not like exact, but as a rule of thumb you want to have 100 max bets.

Thanks for the help guys. What would you recommend my bet spread be? 1-6?

For people scared of division, there are such things as unbalanced counts out there. They have been proven effective both mathematically and in simulations. I strongly suggest a balanced count though, because it offers a less skewed picture of whether the count is high or low.

People are often intimidated by Hi-Low and other balanced counts because of the True Count conversion. This conversion is a lot less overwhelming than most people think.

You do have to become proficient at discard tray deck estimating, but you get to round off your result to the nearest whole number of desks remaining. With a little practice, you will find it easy. For more accuracy, professionals often round the result to the nearest half or quarter deck, but you are not ready to go there yet.

The division: Running Count divided by Remaining Decks = True count. Don't go into the decimals, just truncate if you want to play conservatively, or round if you want to be aggressive: Example 11/3=3 for a conservative player, 11/3=4 for an aggressive player.

A way to get around that:
With 5 decks remaining, you need a running count of:
5 for a true count of 1,
10 for a true count of 2,
15 for a true count of 3,
...see the pattern?
With 4 decks remaining, you need a running count of:
4 for a true count of 1,
8 for a true count of 2,
12 for a true count of 3,
...see the pattern?
With 3 decks remaining, you need a running count of:
3 for a true count of 1,
6 for a true count of 2,
9 for a true count of 3,
...see the pattern? You can often gage exactly where you are by comparing remaining decks to running count, without any division.
Unless you use negative indexes in your play, (a beginner shouldn't) don't bother dividing anything when the running count is negative, just bet small.

For you I am strongly recommending:

• Read a book such as Blackbelt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder that describe both balanced and unbalanced systems. Based on that book make up your mind whether you want to stick with balanced or unbalanced counts.
• Learn the Basic Strategy chart custom tailored for the games a 19 year old guy in Michigan can play. Know it well. Be able to recite it in your dreams.
• Get the Casino Verite Blackjack V4 software . Practice the drills, set your game settings to mimic those at your casino and practice, practice, practice. I find that software extremely effective, and the price is a mere drop in a bucket for someone who has a $10,000 bankroll. (QFIT, do I get a commission?)
• Do not learn both balanced and unbalanced counts thinking you'll save one as Plan B. It takes practice for training your brain to instantly recognize the number 7, for example, as a neutral card in High-Low. If you simultaneously use Red7 or KO where 7 is a high card, you will need to spend more energy thinking about it, your count accuracy will suffer, and you will have less confidence in your abilities.

A little help please

When dividing the running count by the number of decks left use the total number of decks left in the shoe, regardless of whether the deck is in front of the cut card or in back the of the cut card. Disregard the cut card for division purposes, it doesn't matter how many decks are in front or in back of the cut card. But remember that is when they are going to shuffle and make your bets.

For 6 deck shoes a suggest at least 1-8. Try to backcount and join the table on a decent count. You may attract some unwanted attention from the Pit people at that spread, but just act like a ploppie when they scrutinize you.

For 4 deck games, 1-6 seems adequate.

For single or double decks, try 1-4.

Develop some cover, since there are only a handful of places in your neck of the woods that will allow a 19 year old to play, you can't afford to get banned.

Just in case you plan a trip to the Pacific Northwest, the gambling age in the state of Washington is 18, in Oregon it's 21.

I consider 1-6 for 4 decks and 1-8 for 6 decks to be really weak spreads. I dont think that's good enough for a decent profit with play-all blackjack. With wonging however, those spreads are quite sufficient for a good edge.

Spread.

I hear there are DD pitch games in northern MI, but would the counting be any harder? Also, is a 1-12 spread good for the 6D, DAS, DOA no surrender rule for me to just sit-and-play, rather than wonging in and out?.....seems how there are only a few shoe tables available in my location?

It's easy to wong out. Go to the bathroom, take a cell call (real or fake), go for a smoke, or even just sit the rest of the shoe out for a break. It would be harder to wong in and out both with very few tables, but at least wong out of bad counts.

Counting is not any harder on a 2D or 6D game. It's all pretty much the same.

Some folks find it harder to count pitch games as they are dealt facedown and you have much less time to count the cards.
But ,in Vegas,many Double deck games are now shoe games,dealt face up. The best of both worlds for those that don't holecard.

But I hear the 2 deck gmes are hand held games...so I was just wondering what kind of difference this would make seems how I'venever played this type of game. Thanks.

I would recommend you get a day job that pays your 401k.. Then think about picking up a hobby that lets you burn some cash..

Actually I have a day job and a night job that has 401k, and working 70-100 hours per week gets ugghhhhh pretty lame, so I turn to blackjack. I also have other sources of income, ie. big insurance checks......so I'm pretty sure I have the finanacial capability of a 30 year old man + 401k, which means becoming a CC really wouldn't become that big of a problem if I get to know that I'm doing and do it well.

Card counting is a hard way to make a living man. It's good for a little money on the side and for something to do, but if I were you I would keep that job and just play blackjack on the side.

From my understanding there are virtually no pros who only count cards. All the pros do some other more advanced method, sometimes in conjunction with card counting.

Working 70-100 hours a week? Man, you're a slave! I would never work that much!

If you enjoy your job,working 70 hours is nothing.
When I had my club,it was not unusual for me to crash in my office and work 96 hours in a row.
But I'd strongly suggest this poster read quite a bit on the subject of being a
pro BJ player,as I'm getting the impression he really doesn't understand the limitations and tribulations attached to the job.

Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone...

I'm not saying I'm going to jump into "becoming a pro", but that IS my ultimate goal down the road....you gotta start somewhere, I'm 19 years old, why not start learning and training myself eventually to the point of rarely making mistakes? Before I even hit the tables to begin, I expect to do hundred of hours of practice and a ton of reading and taking advice from the many of you out there. Someday I hope it will happen and that's why I take time out of everyday of my life to deal blackjack to myself and try to learn more everyday....maybe that's obsessive? or crazy? Love of the game? Whatever you wanna call it. Thanks for the help.

I think it's just like a little kid wanting to be a pro baseball player. Somewhere along the line you realize it's just not going to happen, or you lose interest in the game.

I don't think becoming a solo professional card counter would be that fun for very long, and it certainly wouldnt be easy. I would say you should become a pro advantage player, and dont just limit yourself to card counting. And find a friend that is interested and form a team.

Me and supercoolmancool formed a team and it has helped my desire to do this as a job a lot. I would never had kept going at this without another person to keep me going. It also helps speed up the learning process. I have come up with things he hasnt thought of, and he has come up with things I hadnt thought of as well. The saying is true, "Two heads are better than one."

Haha, I think it's funny you said that because becoming a pro baseball player has always been my dreams.....how far did I come? Well, I very well could play semi-pro now, but have lost the drive because it wasn't making me any money (and I become into more things, blackjack for instance). But, you do make an excellent point about 2 heads being greater than one. I would love to start a BJ team, but all my friends aren't nearly driven into blackjack as I am....and are completely oblivious to Adcantage Play, even when I try to explaint it to them(basic strategy throwing in gut feelings kinda players) so it's a little difficult to find one. I'm not wanting to become a FULL TIME pro, but a STRONG ADVANTAGE PLAYER that plays weekly and grows his bankroll to a much larger number keeping his dayjob. Seems how I have an advantage over most 19 year olds, (recieving 20k on my birthdays [insurance checks]) and instead of spending my money, I like to watch it grow and work for it....rather than let it sit in a a CD, etc. and gain only 5% a year, I'de like to double, quadrouple, etc. within a year ya know. I wouldn't object to anyone willing to be on a BJ team with me. Let me ask you this....how well your and supercoolman's team performed?