newbie asking about wonging

isn't it dead obvious to pit bosses when you wong-in and wong-out?

and how can people count cards when they are standing two feet away from a table pretending to be watching TV? do i need to train my peripheral vision?

and do you always start counting right after shuffling?

edit: and if you put a few quarters in your pocket while playing, if you were discovered, wouldnt' that be a big giveaway that you are counter and are hiding something?

People enter and leave the games all the time, why are you any different?

Not really, you just have to be able to pair groups of cards and come up with the count quickly when all the cards on the table are exposed with one quick glance.

Of course, if you want an accurate count.

If you are in the habit of playing in a casino where they regularly search your pockets, I would find someplace else to play.

I've never been a fan of peripheral vision. The best thing to do is to work an in-line system. For example, I once found a set of slot machines that were far enough apart so that I could backcount a table while sitting behind a row of slots. You can also try and find table games such as roulette which are in line with tables and pretend to watch roulette.

It's preferable. If you start counting 1 deck into a 6 deck shoe, your penetration drops by a largee amount - a 85% penetration game turns into a 70% penetration game, and a 75% penetration game turns into a 60% penetration game.

If there are a lot of similar games, though, finding a table where the shoe has just been shuffled is no problem (example: if a casino has 15 identical 6D games and 75% penetration, statistically there is 1 game within 1/2 deck of just being shuffled and 3 games within 1 deck of about to be shuffled.

It can be, yes.

Aside from standing there and staring at the cards (which is really stupid and hopefully you're not doing that), the most awkward part of Wonging in/out is getting stuck with a lot of chips. You don't want to buy in as you would buy in for a play-all game. I usually buy in for 1-3 bets (this used to be easier when places allowed cash to play) - if the count goes down, I just leave (which is really natural because I will have either doubled my money really quickly or busted out really quickly). If the count goes up, I can rebuy a loser or play off of my winnings if I'm a winner. The key is to have a large percentage of your displayed chips in the betting circle. You will seem like a wild and crazy gambler, which is what most people are.

This is what I suggest. Find a place where you can watch people as they walk by the blackjack tables, and observe how people react. Do people look at the tables as they walk by? Do they walk quickly or slowly? Do they ever stop to just examine a table for any length of time? Do they smile? Frown? Reach into their wallet as soon as they consider playing, or reach into their wallet only when they decide to play? Do they smile at the female dealers? Curse if they've busted? After you've observed people for about half an hour, pick all the most common characteristics of what a person does, and DO THAT.

The whole point of Wonging is that you want to look exactly like a normal Joe Lucky gambler for the first 15 minutes of your play - and then leave before they can tell the difference between lucky and good.

Wonging and ratholing are almost opposites. Ratholing is trying to deceive a casino where you regularly play and are tracked. Wonging is not playing in a casino regularly and evading tracking altogether. Wongers don't need to rathole; ratholers probably shouldn't Wong.

No, not so. Wonging is avoiding negative counts and seeking positive counts by changing tables. It's for maximizing EV. What you might be thinking about is limiting session length to avoid heat. That's a technique used for protecting yourself at good games, like single deck games.

Actual Wonging is for shoe games in large stores. It goes together well with ratholing because both Wonging and ratholing involve the bathroom. When you Wong out of a bad count you frequently go into the bathroom, which is a safe place to hide a few greens away.

Also, if you are playing in a place long enough and frequently enough where you have to hide your long-term wins with ratholing, you might as well be rated and get the comps. They're part of your EV too. And it looks really suspicious to not be rated when you are there more than once.

If your Wong-in and Wong-out points are sufficiently high, it's unlikely you'll be at the table for more than 15 minutes. I've always done it more to evade detection and to limit my ROR than for EV, but that's because I'm not that serious about raising my EV. For example, I give away half of my calculated EV in tips.

I agree that it can be done at the same time, but I don't understand why you'd want to do it. If you're Wonging in at a positive count and Wonging out at a positive count, the probability that you're going back to the same table is really small - there's no reason to hide chips at all because you're not tracked at all. If you're only Wonging out but returning to the same table and are playing on a card, then I agree with you, you want a smaller cashout at the end to hide winnings.

Only above certain limits, right?

I played all the time as a $3 and $5 player and most people don't have cards / decline cards, even people whose name the pit bosses knew. Only when I moved up to $25 did I notice cards becoming more popular than not.

OK I never play a minimum bet like that. Here in the East the games are weak enough where the comps are usually a significant part of your EV. Another player here described playing a couple of days at Foxwoods and earning $500 in comp dollars. Hard to turn that down. So players there want to spend a lot of time being rated at the table but not let their long-term results arouse a suspicion of them playing with an advantage.

Bouncing around from pit to pit does keep pit bosses from getting a good read on you, but again, around here pit bosses do not catch counters. That all happens upstairs.

I'm pretty sure that I've missed out on some good comps. When I first started playing, I was too paranoid to sign up (this is when they actually pestered $5 players to sign up). By the time I realized that I was being too paranoid, they started raising the level at which they cared - and I was always one betting level below what they cared about.

If I could time travel and go back to Younger Me, I'd definitely slap myself and point out that nobody gives a hoot about a $3 player spreading 1-4.

If you are in the habit of playing in a casino where they regularly search your pockets, I would find someplace else to play.[/QUOTE]

Hahah second that one