Of course you would wear a mask, and try to be careful not to touch your face. Still, casinos are not historically the cleanest places, and with folks drinking and stuff, I wonder if you feel it's fairly dangerous right now? Do you go in for maybe an hour's worth of play, then sanitize your hands and cash out? I'm wondering how you guys feel regarding the risks during this pandemic.
Covid Safety In Casinos
- Thread starter Bluest
- Start date
I can appreciate Don's sentiment. I think LVBear has expressed similar. I think everyone's situation, risk, health is different and everyone should evaluate the situation for themselves. Evaluate and re-evaluate, and re-evaluate as things change.
In June when casinos re-opened here, I evaluated my situation. I am in my mid to late 30's, fit, pretty healthy except for one big pre-existing condition, history of heart surgeries. Weighing just those factors, I probably would have opted not to return to play. But I had one other thing going for me. I had covid in April and fully recovered, with a high antibodies count. At the time, we didn't know exactly what that meant as far as immunity, but it was thought at least months to a year. Las Vegas and Nevada were doing pretty good with minimal cases at the time. Maybe the 100 degree weather helped. So I opted to return to casinos and my blackjack life.
Immediately I became concerned at the lack of mask wearing in the casinos. It was not mandatory at the time, and within a week decided to cease play again. A short time later, masks became mandatory and compliance was better and I resumed play and played until late October when cases began to rise again.
I obviously wore my mask, used hand sanitizer and I only played heads up with no other players at the table. That was easy to get the first few months, became a little harder later on, but I also tried to play early morning hours when it was less crowded. And like I said, when cases began to rise, I re-evaluated again and shut down my blackjack play.
Now if I was in my 60's, 70's or 80's and had my same heart condition or diabetes, or asthma, wasn't as fit as I am, I would have likely made other decisions based on my situation. And if I hadn't contracted the virus and recovered with a strong antibody count, I likely would have made different decisions as well.
In June when casinos re-opened here, I evaluated my situation. I am in my mid to late 30's, fit, pretty healthy except for one big pre-existing condition, history of heart surgeries. Weighing just those factors, I probably would have opted not to return to play. But I had one other thing going for me. I had covid in April and fully recovered, with a high antibodies count. At the time, we didn't know exactly what that meant as far as immunity, but it was thought at least months to a year. Las Vegas and Nevada were doing pretty good with minimal cases at the time. Maybe the 100 degree weather helped. So I opted to return to casinos and my blackjack life.
Immediately I became concerned at the lack of mask wearing in the casinos. It was not mandatory at the time, and within a week decided to cease play again. A short time later, masks became mandatory and compliance was better and I resumed play and played until late October when cases began to rise again.
I obviously wore my mask, used hand sanitizer and I only played heads up with no other players at the table. That was easy to get the first few months, became a little harder later on, but I also tried to play early morning hours when it was less crowded. And like I said, when cases began to rise, I re-evaluated again and shut down my blackjack play.
Now if I was in my 60's, 70's or 80's and had my same heart condition or diabetes, or asthma, wasn't as fit as I am, I would have likely made other decisions based on my situation. And if I hadn't contracted the virus and recovered with a strong antibody count, I likely would have made different decisions as well.
By the way, I did want to mention that temperature checks are a complete joke. Have you looked at the temperatures that are registering at some of these places. Silverton, my temp is always between 95-96 degrees. At the D, and Plaza where they took a reading on your wrist, my temp was always in the low 90's. Once at the D the screen read 89.6.
On top of the inaccurate readings, here are some facts about fevers and covid. Some people that contract the virus have the symptom of a fever, some don't. But if you do, it is a symptom that can show up 3-14 days after you have contracted the virus. That means there can be days even a week that a person is walking around infecting people and have no fever.
On top of that, you know the 98.6 temp that is recognized as "normal" is only an average. Individual people's normal temp can be as much as a degree or more above or below that. My normal temp runs about 98.1 or 98.2. So what that means is someone who's normal temp is usually lets say 97.8, might have a temp of 99.6 which is a fever and 2 degrees higher than normal and pass the under 100.3 threshold and be admitted.
So the whole temperature check thing was a joke from the get go. I think it was designed to look like something was being done, but it was useless.
On top of the inaccurate readings, here are some facts about fevers and covid. Some people that contract the virus have the symptom of a fever, some don't. But if you do, it is a symptom that can show up 3-14 days after you have contracted the virus. That means there can be days even a week that a person is walking around infecting people and have no fever.
On top of that, you know the 98.6 temp that is recognized as "normal" is only an average. Individual people's normal temp can be as much as a degree or more above or below that. My normal temp runs about 98.1 or 98.2. So what that means is someone who's normal temp is usually lets say 97.8, might have a temp of 99.6 which is a fever and 2 degrees higher than normal and pass the under 100.3 threshold and be admitted.
So the whole temperature check thing was a joke from the get go. I think it was designed to look like something was being done, but it was useless.
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While I agree with the sentiment, and am not playing for now, the exchange really isn't an hour of play vs. your life of course. The downside risk in these terms is P(catching covid at a casino) * P(dying from covid once caught). If you consider each P() to be low enough, and particularly their product, then play away. People can rationally have different risk assessments. The odds of dying while driving to the casino are nonzero, for example, and for some, may be comparable to dying from covid caught at a casino.
I think P(catching covid) is higher than some may realize, because while cleaning and mitigation efforts are (usually) strong, a lot of people in the casinos are exactly the type to be irresponsible with exposure, mask-wearing, isolation, and similar. And if you catch it and are young, you still might kill your elderly parents.
Temperature checks are pure theater, and are meaningless.
Just hold off a little longer if you can, the vaccines will be available soon.
I think P(catching covid) is higher than some may realize, because while cleaning and mitigation efforts are (usually) strong, a lot of people in the casinos are exactly the type to be irresponsible with exposure, mask-wearing, isolation, and similar. And if you catch it and are young, you still might kill your elderly parents.
Temperature checks are pure theater, and are meaningless.
Just hold off a little longer if you can, the vaccines will be available soon.
I've always had fun asking people the following question: Suppose a gun with 100 chambers and one bullet. You play Russian roulette. A million dollars if you win, and well, ...
Would you play? Lets you know just how much people value their lives. You can change the cash prize and the number of chambers to suit your taste.
Bottom line: don't confuse the small probability of contracting COVID and dying from it with zero. "Highly unlikely" doesn't equal zero.
My perspective may be different from yours because I come from NY and the greater NY metropolitan area where we've had 34,000 deaths in NY state alone. And, I'm 74 years old. So, I take this shit seriously.
Don
Would you play? Lets you know just how much people value their lives. You can change the cash prize and the number of chambers to suit your taste.
Bottom line: don't confuse the small probability of contracting COVID and dying from it with zero. "Highly unlikely" doesn't equal zero.
My perspective may be different from yours because I come from NY and the greater NY metropolitan area where we've had 34,000 deaths in NY state alone. And, I'm 74 years old. So, I take this shit seriously.
Don
[QUOTE="KewlJ, post: 504676, member: 8774"
In June when casinos re-opened here, I evaluated my situation. I am in my mid to late 30's, fit, pretty healthy except for one big pre-existing condition, history of heart surgeries. Weighing just those factors, I probably would have opted not to return to play. But I had one other thing going for me. I had covid in April and fully recovered, with a high antibodies count. At the time, we didn't know exactly what that meant as far as immunity, but it was thought at least months to a year. Las Vegas and Nevada were doing pretty good with minimal cases at the time. Maybe the 100 degree weather helped. So I opted to return to casinos and my blackjack life.
[/QUOTE]
KewlJ, your advice is so helpful, and well expressed, thank you. Tell me, how did you do at that time? I'm curious how playing heads up, staying vigilant about your health and other casinos at this time in June affected your EV. Was it a good stretch, in terms of money making?
In June when casinos re-opened here, I evaluated my situation. I am in my mid to late 30's, fit, pretty healthy except for one big pre-existing condition, history of heart surgeries. Weighing just those factors, I probably would have opted not to return to play. But I had one other thing going for me. I had covid in April and fully recovered, with a high antibodies count. At the time, we didn't know exactly what that meant as far as immunity, but it was thought at least months to a year. Las Vegas and Nevada were doing pretty good with minimal cases at the time. Maybe the 100 degree weather helped. So I opted to return to casinos and my blackjack life.
[/QUOTE]
KewlJ, your advice is so helpful, and well expressed, thank you. Tell me, how did you do at that time? I'm curious how playing heads up, staying vigilant about your health and other casinos at this time in June affected your EV. Was it a good stretch, in terms of money making?
Right! Good points. I was thinking that too; people in casinos may be addictive, less vigilant about their health, and on top of that I assume they take off their masks to drink. Then again, maybe they are super thoughtful. I don't want to pre-judge them too much. But it's never struck me as a paragon of personal responsibility and health, that culture. I suppose you can keep your mask on, and be really cautious. But then, I drink a lot of water, like I'm thirsty all day. So that's a risk too. Good points.
One other aspect to my own decisions that I haven't mentioned. I live with my younger brother, who also supports himself by blackjack play. We share a 2 bedroom condo. So if I decide to lock myself up at home, he is forced to do so as well. I have made that decision, not necessarily to lock myself at home, but no more casinos, 3 different times now, back in March before even casinos shutdown, shortly after casinos re-opened when people weren't wearing masks and in late October when cases began spiking again. Each time my brother immediately did the same. I didn't ask him, and even if I tried to tell him to keep playing he wouldn't. And it really has to be that way. It wouldn't make much sense for me to stay home and him to keep visiting casinos and potentially bring the virus home to me. I hate that but that is the way it is. 
I think it is pretty unfair to ask a 20 something year old, very fit, very healthy guy to disrupt his life like that, even though he would do so and did do so with no hesitation at all. So I am going to and did lean towards not taking such a position until I really felt it necessary. I guess accepting a little more risk, if you will.
So surely other people, maybe at a little more risk than others in your household, maybe even generational age difference are in similar situation. I wonder how each decided to handle it? anyone want to share?
I think it is pretty unfair to ask a 20 something year old, very fit, very healthy guy to disrupt his life like that, even though he would do so and did do so with no hesitation at all. So I am going to and did lean towards not taking such a position until I really felt it necessary. I guess accepting a little more risk, if you will.
So surely other people, maybe at a little more risk than others in your household, maybe even generational age difference are in similar situation. I wonder how each decided to handle it? anyone want to share?
What if there were 1000 chambers? Or a million chambers? Or however many chambers would equate to the risk encountered driving to a nearby casino, or any number of deadly risks that we take every day without a second thought?
I take it seriously because the precautions don't impact me much, and I'd rather not get sick (or anyone else sick). But if the precautions/lockdowns did affect me more, I'd take more risk, because it's worth it, and I don't fault those who choose to do so.
I take it seriously because the precautions don't impact me much, and I'd rather not get sick (or anyone else sick). But if the precautions/lockdowns did affect me more, I'd take more risk, because it's worth it, and I don't fault those who choose to do so.
WTF! I object to anyone talking to or about Don like that. Don is long-term member of this community that many of us look up. Via his book and participation on forums, so many of us have benefited. He deserves more respect that that, even if you happen to have a different opinion on a subject, any subject.
That said as I write this, the numbers in the U.S. are 14,070,404 confirmed cases and 276,670 deaths. I suspect there are more cases than have been confirmed, as some people got the virus and recovered without any testing or confirmation, especially earlier. Now more people are getting tested. So if we double the cases, which I believe is fair and divide deaths by cases, you get .00983 or a hair under 1% and 1% is not almost zero, counting is fun. So I would say Don's analogy of 1 bullet in 100 is spot on , just as Don almost always is with numbers.
Now as discussed, different people are at different and greater risks. I am, just as Don is, so everyone is going to evaluate their own risk and situation differently and take precautions they feel necessary. There should be no "shaming" because of that.
One other thing you have wrong is that only the obese and very old are at risk. There is a whole list of conditions, mine included that place a person at greater risk regardless of age. Some are pretty common things, like diabetes, Asthma, high blood pressure and even something like acid reflux, which many people don't realize effects the lungs, as stomach acid that is suppose to be limited to the stomach makes it's way to and damages, other locations, including the lungs. I am going to say, most people over 40 HAVE one of these underlying conditions, especially with higher cancer survival rates which is good, but the cancer treatments damage and weaken immune systems permanently.
If you are not in a higher risk group, do what you want, but for god sakes, show some humanity for those that aren't as lucky and have a greater concern. One day it may be you in a higher risk group.
That said as I write this, the numbers in the U.S. are 14,070,404 confirmed cases and 276,670 deaths. I suspect there are more cases than have been confirmed, as some people got the virus and recovered without any testing or confirmation, especially earlier. Now more people are getting tested. So if we double the cases, which I believe is fair and divide deaths by cases, you get .00983 or a hair under 1% and 1% is not almost zero, counting is fun. So I would say Don's analogy of 1 bullet in 100 is spot on , just as Don almost always is with numbers.
Now as discussed, different people are at different and greater risks. I am, just as Don is, so everyone is going to evaluate their own risk and situation differently and take precautions they feel necessary. There should be no "shaming" because of that.
One other thing you have wrong is that only the obese and very old are at risk. There is a whole list of conditions, mine included that place a person at greater risk regardless of age. Some are pretty common things, like diabetes, Asthma, high blood pressure and even something like acid reflux, which many people don't realize effects the lungs, as stomach acid that is suppose to be limited to the stomach makes it's way to and damages, other locations, including the lungs. I am going to say, most people over 40 HAVE one of these underlying conditions, especially with higher cancer survival rates which is good, but the cancer treatments damage and weaken immune systems permanently.
If you are not in a higher risk group, do what you want, but for god sakes, show some humanity for those that aren't as lucky and have a greater concern. One day it may be you in a higher risk group.
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To cite a small quibble, Don related the risk of dying from going to a casino as 1%. Which is ridiculous of course. You are estimating the risk of dying once having contracted covid , which may well be around 1%. Not remotely the same thing.
Still, there's no need for the insulting language to Don. People can disagree without being aholes about it.
Still, there's no need for the insulting language to Don. People can disagree without being aholes about it.
Everyone here is completely misunderstanding and misconstruing my Russian roulette remark. I clearly stated that "I've always had fun asking people, ..." For how long? Probably more than 50 years!! My choosing 100 chambers had ZERO to do with any value I placed on a probability from getting COVID. It was simply my way of asking, as I have forever, "How much do you value your life? What value do you place on the possibility of dying?"
Yesterday, 600 more people died in the U.S. in one day than have died in Japan in more than eight months, since the pandemic began! Our reckless, irresponsible behavior has been a model throughout the world of how NOT to handle the disease. And yet, we still have to read here about "fake news" from malcontents who have no purpose on these sites but to disrupt and spout nonsense simply because, well, it's fun and they can.
Maybe it's time to take a look at some of the crap that's being posted here.
Don
Yesterday, 600 more people died in the U.S. in one day than have died in Japan in more than eight months, since the pandemic began! Our reckless, irresponsible behavior has been a model throughout the world of how NOT to handle the disease. And yet, we still have to read here about "fake news" from malcontents who have no purpose on these sites but to disrupt and spout nonsense simply because, well, it's fun and they can.
Maybe it's time to take a look at some of the crap that's being posted here.
Don
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Since you bring up Japan you forgot to mention this little bit of info.
In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from Covid in all of 2020. And women have been impacted most
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/28/asia/japan-suicide-women-covid-dst-intl-hnk/index.html
How does that figure in?
In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from Covid in all of 2020. And women have been impacted most
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/28/asia/japan-suicide-women-covid-dst-intl-hnk/index.html
How does that figure in?