2 Deck Pitch Game vs. 6 Deck Shoe- question

Bluest

Well-Known Member
#1
I've been practicing a lot, and I'm finding it's a lot easier for me to manage a 2 deck game. Is this the same for everyone? A newbie question where you'll say 'duh, no kidding.'? Or do you in some cases prefer a 6 deck game?

I realize the rules will not necessarily be equal in terms of S17, Early Surrender, etc... but I'm curious if you have a strong preference. Isn't it easier to count into and increase your bet reliably in two deck? Perhaps not if there are fewer cards, and thus less variance in distribution of high to low cards. Anyway, really looking forward to your responses. Thank you. ; )
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#2
Double deck games are almost always superior, assuming decent penetration and fairly standard rules. It isn't a real apples to apples comparison because almost no one can play both games with the same spread. Well not if you are looking for any kind of longevity. AND at a lot of places (especially in Las Vegas) double deck games are watched pretty closely, much more so than shoe games....usually.

That said, I play mostly 6 deck shoe games. I began my career playing Atlantic City which was mostly 8 deck games. So a good penetration 6 deck game is much better than what I was used to. Things I like about a shoe game are that if you can play heads up or even with one other player, you can rack up rounds (and EV) pretty quickly with a decent dealer. And when the count does rise especially to max bet territory, you can usually get many more rounds at that max bet count, which is really what the game is all about.

The negatives are that you need a big spread and sometimes you play through many shoes without getting to a really decent count. This playing through multiple shoes without a decent count is when it becomes really advantageous to keep an eye on neighboring games, and immediately jump to a better opportunity (when available), but that is a different discussion. :rolleyes:
 

Bluest

Well-Known Member
#3
Ah! Outstanding intel, thank you sincerely. Is that +3 TC or better? When you start betting large?

It sounds like it would be nice if you could play a 6 deck shoe with a low minimum. Then you could just grind through the minus count, perhaps.
 

Nightshifter

Well-Known Member
#4
Yeah... but watch out for dealers who shuffle the deck with uneven picks. It perpetuates card clumping... and I"m not talking about naturally occurring card clumping. I know... I used to do this myself ;) Usually 1/4 to 1/3rd of the bottom isn't included in the shuffle... which keeps any like cards (like high hands that remain on the table after the busted hands went out) together... keep doing this over time it will perpetuate larger and larger groups until you reach a saturation point and it releases back to what is considered a normal distribution again... but that's when we change cards LOL!
 

Bluest

Well-Known Member
#6
I train a lot, and what I've been finding is that 4 deck shoe is the sweet spot for me. I can Wong out if a lot of high cards come out early and it looks like it's going negative for the duration, or just play through at relatively low stakes and wait for the count to change. It seems like it happens more quickly and more manageably with 4 decks. Obvious, since there are fewer cards. But it seems like a lot of casinos use 6 or even 8? Then there are the famed 2 deck games but as many of you have said, they're watched more closely. I wonder if 4 deck is less common than 6.
 

Nightshifter

Well-Known Member
#7
Just be aware of games in which the high valued cards never show more often than not ;) But even if you cut in a different area... and that group of high valued cards comes out... it usually results in a push with the house (all 20's)... just saying be aware of this. There's a difference in naturally occurring and the casino perpetuating this to increase their edge! The casino never gives you an acceptable answer as to why you have to keep the cut within 1/4 of a deck... or why they won't show anyone the cards (hard rock casinos in Florida notorious for this) during a new cards procedure... in fact at some casinos... on the shoe game (6 decks or more...) I had to keep the cut within one deck! LOL
 

Bluest

Well-Known Member
#8
Thank you. I don't get this cut card procedure. The dealer lets you cut the cards yourself with that plastic solid color card. Then, he inserts that into the deck. So how does it matter at all where you cut the cards?
 

Nightshifter

Well-Known Member
#9
Not usually... but if the ASM is like uhhh 'custom chipped' then yes it would. Although no matter what you either get drowned with 10's or a plethora of low cards when the +TC is going way up and they just never appear... not saying that no 10's appear... they do but usually with a lot of low cards and the dealer keeps making his stiff while you're staying on your stiff ;) Most of the time you don't have to worry about this but there are some unscrupulous casinos out there... esp. the tribal casinos! That's the reason they want the card cut resolution no less than one deck as to preserve this clump! I asked the pit why they did this... he said because of shuffle trackers... I replied that there's no way anyone would know because the cards go into the 'black box' to get shuffled (unless you're edge sorting but usually this is why the dealer will rotate half the deck 180 before putting it into the machine or the machine is programmed to abolish this...); he had no answer for that... ;)
 

LC Larry

Well-Known Member
#10
There is no "uhhh custom chip." Enough with this bullshit!

And for you suckers that supposedly bought shufflers, these are aftermarket knockoffs and NOT the real thing used in casinos.
 

Bluest

Well-Known Member
#11
The one thing positive I've heard about tribal casinos, is that they sometimes have wacky promotions, like putting several jokers in the deck, and jokers are wild. I think those are only temporary, to get people in the door. Still, if you could exploit that for a weekend or so, you might make out well.
 
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