Ace/Five Count Question

[Zach6794]

Hey everyone,

I am planning to play blackjack this week or weekend.

For basic strategy, I haven't memorized it, but plan to print out sheets of basic strategy sheets (one for hit on 17, one for stand on 17) from the wizard of odds. I have been practicing using those sheets for a week or so.

So, I was planning on using a modified ace/5 counting system that I read on wizard of odds. However, the betting system requires a big bankroll i.m.o. "Usually the maximum will be 8, 16, or 32 times the minimum bet, or any power of 2, but you can use whatever bet spread you wish" (wizard of odds). If minimum bet is $10, I would potentially spend a lot.

What I was planning on doing was not betting until the count was +2, and increase by 5 each time the count goes up. Would that modification work? Also, if I sat at a table and barely played, would that be bad?

Please give me your feedback.

 

[xengrifter]

The A-5 is a waste of time IMO.
Just practice BS on this weekend; after that LEARN BS cold reflex like your multiplication tables.
after that ask us for your next step.

 

[Blackjacked]

I use ace/five count with much success! The key is betting correctly though, since the odds of getting a blackjack are smaller than getting two face cards when using standard hi/low counting formulas. Usually an ace will come out when the count is good, but another player will get it, or worse of all, the dealer snags it. You have to be prepared for these possibilities, so don't bet so high! I would double the flat bet of 10 at plus 2, for 20 buck wager, and above +4, raise it to 30! Don't raise any higher, because there's no guarantee you'll get the blackjack, and then you're stuck losing against a dealers blackjack which is no good at all.

 

[gronbog]

Blackjacked, with such a small spread and a weak count, I doubt that you're playing a winning game in the long run.

 

[xengrifter]

I use ace/five count with much success! The key is betting correctly though, since the odds of getting a blackjack are smaller than getting two face cards when using standard hi/low counting formulas. Usually an ace will come out when the count is good, but another player will get it, or worse of all, the dealer snags it. You have to be prepared for these possibilities, so don't bet so high! I would double the flat bet of 10 at plus 2, for 20 buck wager, and above +4, raise it to 30! Don't raise any higher, because there's no guarantee you'll get the blackjack, and then you're stuck losing against a dealers blackjack which is no good at all.

Blackjacked, with such a small spread and a weak count, I doubt that you're playing a winning game in the long run.

Concur, he has no edge ... and he's posting this drivel like he's teaching us something.

 

[Blackjacked]

I don't only utilize ace/five count, but use Red Seven, and progressive betting after a win in the positive counts. 80 percent of the time I walk out of a casino with at least double of what I brought in to start, which is usually 100-200 USD. Proof is in this past six months I've visited casinos 31 times and won 27 of the visits.

 

[gronbog]

80 percent of the time I walk out of a casino with at least double of what I brought in to start, which is usually 100-200 USD. Proof is in this past six months I've visited casinos 31 times and won 27 of the visits.

While these results are not impossible over such a small amount of play, they are on the far end of extreme positive variance (good luck) and it will certainly not continue this way.

 

[Blackjacked]

That depends on the other players at the table playing their hand right to maintain a good flow of cards, leaving after four losses or a bad shoe, and basic strategy variance in relation to the card count.

1 Like on splits, it is to the players favor to make at least one hand against a dealers show card, by hitting it again, especially if four split cards don't make a hard hand in the negative counts. Positive count though, play basic strategy

Also in the positive counts player should not hit 13 versus a 2, 15 or 16 versus a 10, or 15 versus a 7.

In the negative counts never double down 11 versus a 10 or Ace, also on double downs on splits double for less in the negative counts, to absorb possible losses in the negative counts. .

After a win when the count is positive add to your bet in a progressive style, utilizing a winning streak to rake in the chips, or to just double your brought money. When you reach a point where you've doubled your money, or have neared this goal, don't continue to bet on the streak but on the card count , by dropping your bet, or just cashout the win.

You follow this on six deck 80 percent chance you will walk out a winner in a casino on every visit

 

[gronbog]

That depends on the other players at the table playing their hand right to maintain a good flow of cards

After a win when the count is positive add to your bet in a progressive style

You follow this on six deck 80 percent chance you will walk out a winner in a casino on every visit

Your most recent post confirms that you don't really know what you're talking about, although some of your playing strategy deviations are beneficial at the proper index. I wish you good luck. You're going to need it!

 

[Gambler72K]

I was curious about using the Ace Five count as described by Michael Shackleford as well. At a count of +2, bets are doubled until you hit your maximum bet and remain at that level (which for me would be 16 units) until the count goes below 2. I'm sure the swings would be brutal. But the reason I was intrigued by it was that it looks to the floor like you're running a martingale (win or lose, unless the count dips below 2) and not fluctuating bets as much as I normally would. It seems there would be far less scrutiny by surveillance from a "regular" at the casino playing this way. Just another loser running a martingale at a shoe game...I'm by no means a pro and am interested more in longevity at my local casino (and a tiny edge). Just curious if you guys think this has any merit if used in the long run for recreational/comp play vs. something like Mr. Renzey's Ace/Ten front count...Regards!

 

[gronbog]

The WoO did publish some SCOREs for this system on the page you linked to which indicate that you can make a tiny profit using this system against the fairly liberal rules outlined, but be very aware that SCORE calls for optimal Kelly betting. If you follow the progressive betting scheme recommended, your variance will be sky high and I believe that you would need an extremely large bankroll (more than the $10k required by SCORE) to keep your risk of ruin manageable.

 

[SkyofHorus]

I was curious about using the Ace Five count as described by Michael Shackleford as well. At a count of +2, bets are doubled until you hit your maximum bet and remain at that level (which for me would be 16 units) until the count goes below 2. I'm sure the swings would be brutal. But the reason I was intrigued by it was that it looks to the floor like you're running a martingale (win or lose, unless the count dips below 2) and not fluctuating bets as much as I normally would. It seems there would be far less scrutiny by surveillance from a "regular" at the casino playing this way. Just another loser running a martingale at a shoe game...I'm by no means a pro and am interested more in longevity at my local casino (and a tiny edge). Just curious if you guys think this has any merit if used in the long run for recreational/comp play vs. something like Mr. Renzey's Ace/Ten front count...Regards!

I'm running with Renzey's Ace/Ten front count right now, and i love it so far. I don't know much about the Ace Five count, however, for your comparison between the two.

 

[borya31]

I was curious about using the Ace Five count as described by Michael Shackleford as well. At a count of +2, bets are doubled until you hit your maximum bet and remain at that level (which for me would be 16 units) until the count goes below 2. I'm sure the swings would be brutal. But the reason I was intrigued by it was that it looks to the floor like you're running a martingale (win or lose, unless the count dips below 2) and not fluctuating bets as much as I normally would. It seems there would be far less scrutiny by surveillance from a "regular" at the casino playing this way. Just another loser running a martingale at a shoe game...I'm by no means a pro and am interested more in longevity at my local casino (and a tiny edge). Just curious if you guys think this has any merit if used in the long run for recreational/comp play vs. something like Mr. Renzey's Ace/Ten front count...Regards!

Problem whit this if your count is above +2 you win hand double your bet lose next double again. There is no correlation between you winning a hand and your bet size. You just keep doubling your bet win or lose. Progression don't play like that gamblers don't play like that.

 

[borya31]

I play Ace 5 count whit a lot of cover bets. I always reset my bet to minimum after losing hand I wait to increase my bet until win double. I spread to 2 hands in positive count if can find excuse. There is 3 excuses I found so far. Losing hand flow of cards need to be changed. New player join game he going to mess flow of cards. Somebody making bad play result in dealer not busting. Need to do something to fix that error. If win double down at 30$ instead of 1 hand of 55$ 2 hands off 55$ I new player join game. Couple times have my lady freind join game whit 25$ in positive count give me excuse to add 1 more hand to 1 or 2 I am already playing. She play whit advantage since she only play positive count. I get better bet spread. Once you playing 2 hands 1 of them more likely to win double so my total bet would go from 60$ to 85$ or even 110$. Going to 135$ is rare but happens. So in 2 hands I can have 4x spread. Whit no heat from casino. And 80$ a hand not limit. 80$ might become 155$ hand after winning double on it.

 

[gronbog]

Progression don't play like that gamblers don't play like that.

Gamblers do play like that as do progression players, which casinos love even more than regular gamblers. That's the point of the post. You look more like someone the casino would normally welcome.

BTW, that post is six and half years old.

 

[borya31]

Gamblers do play like that as do progression players, which casinos love even more than regular gamblers. That's the point of the post. You look more like someone the casino would normally welcome.

BTW, that post is six and half years old.

Progression players double their hand after win or lose not both. Card counter double their bets whit count. I try to find middle ground. Lock like positive Progression player but keep track of flow of cards. If something mess flow of cards have to play 2 or even 3 hands to restore balance. Only happen in positive count. But in negative count still raise bet a little. 35$ and 55$ after 30$ lock very similar to eye in sky or maybe even floor supervisor from distance. If I lose bet and dealer pick it up nobody at table might not notice difrence between 35$ and 55$. Only time they see my real bet when dealer pay winner. And it still 3 chips unless you watch me closely. But I don't give floor reson to do that. And if I win double down whit 55$ or 35$ bet I bet 45$ or 105$. Betting 5 chips after winning 6 lock natural. They don't know color of chips depends on count. If count change to positive after winning double down at 35$ I bet 65$ still 5 chips. After winning double down at 55$ and count go to negative I bet 85$ still 5 chips. But if no winning hands between 30$ and 55$ double down I apear more conservative only bet 60$ . No enough red chips in payoff to go to 65$. Lost hand go back to 30$. If win 2 lost 1 at positive count at 55$ go to 50$. I am doing what gamblers do lower my bet after lost 2 chips. If count stay positive or I keep winning 50$ bets I stay at 50$ if win double down at 50$ go to 75$. Win 4 chips bet 3. Lose hand go back to 2 chips. Unfortunately if count go negative by time I win 50$ double I still bet 75$. There is no need to bring red chips from my stack and bring attention to myself. Same think whit winning 75$ double will bet 125$ no mater what count. But still 50$ bet is only happening in positive count. So I hope count stay positive long enough to win couple double downs. Sure hope not 2 lose bet at 55$ so I can win 6 chips not 4 like whit 50$ bet. Than I can bet 5 chips which is 105$. Count is positive lock for excuse to bet more negative excuse to bet less or even minimum. But sometimes cover bets become more important that count. Got to play that progressive gambler to avoid back off.