10,10 Spl Debate

[blackjack avenger]

Some say do
Some say don't

A middle ground?

One can raise their indices a few points beyond RA? They will do it less frequently and when one does use them they get a big bang for the buck.

Also, one could perhaps choose to never resplit.

One could choose to only do it if losing, if steaming etc.

A casino you rarely visit vs one you visit frequently

A known heat casino vs a casino that takes crazy action

Are others splitting around you?

Is this your first opportunity in your play to split? One could just keep in mind if the example hands have occured yet?

Combined with the above, one can choose to "do it until you are satisfied", "what a risk". Once you are ahead in actual $, don't do it again. One may have realized much if not all of the lifetime EV.

Finally, one can judge based on heat if they should or shouldn't do it and can employ with the above suggestions. If a suite is watching or a call upstairs has been made then perhaps don't do it.

:joker::whip:
good cards

 

[Automatic Monkey]

It's only gotten me heat once, in a good SD game. In shoe land the play is not any more uncommon than any of the other skilled plays (hitting A7, proper splitting of 9's, proper insurance and surrender) that it is going to get you any undue heat from the casino (from the civilians, that's a different story!)

It's not a play I'm willing to give up. Must be RA of course.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

Only stupid people and counters split tens. The key is to convince the pit boss that you are stupid. The cost of splitting face cards at a low count vs 5 or 6 isn't that much, as each 10 still has +EV. Do it when the pit boss is watching.

Then he won't care as much when you split tens with a large bet. They'll think that you split tens often. Once in a way, if the pit boss is looking, split 'em up with a minimum bet for cover.

 

[Renzey]

Only stupid people and counters split tens. The cost of splitting face cards at a low count vs 5 or 6 isn't that much, as each 10 still has +EV. Do it when the pit boss is watching. Then he won't care as much when you split tens with a large bet. They'll think that you split tens often.

Splitting 10's at a neutral count for camo has a huge cost -- 14-to-16%. There are so many other "rum-dum" looking plays which cost less than 2%. Make those.

I still believe the one biggest tipoff that you're counting is Insuring a stiff. Only one kind of player does that.
Next is spreading to two hands while increasing the bet size. Splitting 10's just blurs your image even a little more in my opinion -- particularly if you're already making other cheap camo plays like splitting 2/2, 3/3 or 7/7 vs. 8, doubling for cheap with 12 vs, 2, 3 or 4, etc, etc.

 

[ArcticInferno]

hitting A7

I routinely ask the dealer and the floor supervisor whether I should
hit A7 vs 9, T or A, and they all suggest that I do. No heat there.

On a side note, you should stand on A7 vs A as the remaining deck
composition becomes rich in tens.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Clarification

I routinely ask the dealer and the floor supervisor whether I should
hit A7 vs 9, T or A, and they all suggest that I do. No heat there.

On a side note, you should stand on A7 vs A as the remaining deck
composition becomes rich in tens.

I have a different experience most of the time when the pit or dealer comments on A7 they are wrong.

On standing on A7 vs A you do mean to stand when modestly positive in a
S17 game, right?

:joker::whip:
different perspective

 

[creeping panther]

Ins.

Splitting 10's at a neutral count for camo has a huge cost -- 14-to-16%. There are so many other "rum-dum" looking plays which cost less than 2%. Make those.

I still believe the one biggest tipoff that you're counting is Insuring a stiff. Only one kind of player does that.
Next is spreading to two hands while increasing the bet size. Splitting 10's just blurs your image even a little more in my opinion -- particularly if you're already making other cheap camo plays like splitting 2/2, 3/3 or 7/7 vs. 8, doubling for cheap with 12 vs, 2, 3 or 4, etc, etc.

I have to agree with the above. However an ACT can go along way, IMHO.

CP

 

[ArcticInferno]

I have a different experience most of the time when the pit or dealer comments on A7 they are wrong.

On standing on A7 vs A you do mean to stand when modestly positive in a
S17 game, right?

:joker::whip:
different perspective

Depending on which system you use, the proper strategy deviation is to stand when the count rises.
On my crazy quasi level 6 system, when the count is positive, stand on A7 vs A, but hit at negative counts.
I think Hi-Lo has a slightly different index. I don't have access to the sims at the moment, but I'll check it out and post it for Wong Halves, KO, Hi-Lo, Zen, etc., later.
It's not one of the Illustrious 18 strategy deviations because the benefits are only marginal, and this is just another extra thing that you have to remember for only a small gain.
Standing A7 vs A makes you look good, and it's the right play at the proper index. Then would it be a sound advice to always stand on A7 vs A, so that you look consistent? I think the cost of cover is well worth it.

 

[ArcticInferno]

If you want to look like a lobotomy patient, split two fives at low counts.
The cost is surprisingly low. Really!
They may call the ambulance for you, though. LOL!

 

[21forme]

If you want to look like a lobotomy patient, split two fives at low counts.
The cost is surprisingly low. Really!
They may call the ambulance for you, though. LOL!

I see the splitting of 5s all too often!

On another note, I find the opportunity to split tens (right cards and big count) happens very infrequently.

 

[Sucker]

If you want to look like a lobotomy patient, split two fives at low counts.
The cost is surprisingly low. Really!
They may call the ambulance for you, though. LOL!

At count of -10 , if you have 5-5 and the dealer has a 6 up:
1)If you hit; your EV is +7.91 (times one bet).
2)If you double; your EV is +4.82% (times two bets).
3)If you split; your EV is - 9.44% (times two bets).

Another reasonable question could be: Why are you sitting through such negative counts anyway? Isn't that cover enough?

 

[ArcticInferno]

I have a different experience most of the time when the pit or dealer comments on A7 they are wrong.

Correction:
The dealers and the floor supervisors say, “According to the book, so and so,...”

 

[ArcticInferno]

I see the splitting of 5s all too often!

On another note, I find the opportunity to split tens (right cards and big count) happens very infrequently.

According to I-18, I think splitting tens ranks pretty high up there, only a few notches below standing on 16 vs T.
I don’t split tens for longevity reasons.

 

[ArcticInferno]

At count of -10 , if you have 5-5 and the dealer has a 6 up:
1)If you hit; your EV is +7.91 (times one bet).
2)If you double; your EV is +4.82% (times two bets).
3)If you split; your EV is - 9.44% (times two bets).

Another reasonable question could be: Why are you sitting through such negative counts anyway? Isn't that cover enough?

I saw slightly different numbers. Have you seen Cacarulo's table?
You're obviously betting the minimum, so how badly do you want to look like a lobotomy patient?

 

[ArcticInferno]

On standing on A7 vs A you do mean to stand when modestly positive in a
S17 game, right?

For multideck, not single deck.

Stand A7 vs A
Hi-Lo, TC 1
Halves, TC 1
Mentor, TC 3
Hi-Opt II, TC 3
AOII, TC 2
Zen, TC 15 !!!
You can check out the rest in CVData.

 

[aslan]

For multideck, not single deck.

Stand A7 vs A
Hi-Lo, TC 1
Halves, TC 1
Mentor, TC 3
Hi-Opt II, TC 3
AOII, TC 2
Zen, TC 15 !!!
You can check out the rest in CVData.

You're saying to stand on A7 vs. A when TC HiLo = 1? That is not shown in KO's I18. Also, it is counter-intuitive to me. I understand that the dealer can only win with an 8 or 9, or draw to a soft hand. OTOH, the player can improve to a higher hand, or more likely draw a ten for the same hand. So I guess you are saying that just the fact that the dealer cannot have a ten in the hole, favors staying on A7. I didn't know that.

 

[21forme]

You're saying to stand on A7 vs. A when TC HiLo = 1?

This is correct for S17. H17 is a hit.

 

[ArcticInferno]

You're saying to stand on A7 vs. A when TC HiLo = 1? That is not shown in KO's I18. Also, it is counter-intuitive to me. I understand that the dealer can only win with an 8 or 9, or draw to a soft hand. OTOH, the player can improve to a higher hand, or more likely draw a ten for the same hand. So I guess you are saying that just the fact that the dealer cannot have a ten in the hole, favors staying on A7. I didn't know that.

Don’t try to reason it out through intuition.
The data comes from statistical analysis.
Standing on A7 vs A in high counts has only a marginal benefit, but it’s still a benefit nonetheless.
If you’re a perfectionist, then you’d do it simply to be complete.
It also makes you look like a ploppy, so two birds with one stone.
Want some more “misplays” that have double benefits?
A8 vs 5 and A8 vs 6, double at Hi-Lo TC of 1 or above.
Don’t double 9 vs 3 but hit instead at Hi-Lo RC < 0. This is precious!!!
Those “misplays” will mark you as an imbecile, but they’re actually correct strategy deviations.
I’d like to share an upsetting experience at Foxwoods. In the high-limit room at MGM Grand, there’s an attractive blonde female dealer with a Turkish accent. After I doubled A8 vs 6, she asked me, “You knew I was going to bust when you doubled, didn’t you?” My ploy backfired.

 

[ArcticInferno]

This is correct for S17. H17 is a hit.

Yes, different indices for different rules.

 

[ArcticInferno]

That is not shown in KO's I18.

Aslan, you’re right. These strategy deviations aren’t part of the I-18, because although correct, the benefits are only marginal.
Illustrious 18 lists only those that have enough benefits to justify the extra mental work.
But the case I’m making is that aside from the minimal benefits, it’s a great cover.
The cover is worth the extra mental work.