A question about the Illustrious 18

[itakeyourmoney]

I'm using I18 (modified for h17 -- 11vA is now 0 and 12v6 is now -3), but I'm kinda confused about exactly how to use it.

For example, 16v10 is 0 and 15v10 is +4 -- does this mean that I should stand with a 16v10 or a 15v10 with TC's greater than 0 and +4, respectively?

And 10v10 at +4, is this one that I should double?

And the modification I mentioned earlier (11vA at 0) has me doubling down with a TC of 0 or more, but my question is: according my BS chart it has me always doubling on 11 -- should I not do this against an A with a negative TC?

9v2 at +1, is this a double?

10vA at +4, is this a double?

16v9 at +5 -- I assume this is a stand?

13v2 at -1 -- BS has this as a stand, does the index change it? Like below TC -1 I should hit?

^^ Same thing for 12v4, 12v5, 12v6, and 13v3 at TC 0, -2, -3 (modified), and -2, respectively.

 

[daddybo]

I'm using I18 (modified for h17 -- 11vA is now 0 and 12v6 is now -3), but I'm kinda confused about exactly how to use it.

For example, 16v10 is 0 and 15v10 is +4 -- does this mean that I should stand with a 16v10 or a 15v10 with TC's greater than 0 and +4, respectively?

And 10v10 at +4, is there one that I should double?

And the modification I mentioned earlier (11vA at 0) has me doubling down with a TC of 0 or more, but my question is: according my BS chart it has me always doubling on 11 -- should I not do this against an A with a negative TC?

9v2 at +1, is this a double?

10vA at +4, is this a double?

16v9 at +5 -- I assume this is a stand?

13v2 at -1 -- BS has this as a stand, does the index change it? Like below TC -1 I should hit?

^^ Same thing for 12v4, 12v5, 12v6, and 13v3 at TC 0, -2, -3 (modified), and -2, respectively.

What Count are you using?

 

[itakeyourmoney]

hi-lo

Edit: There is a table here: http://jay.purplewire.com/blackjack/ill18.html (Archive copy) that shows what to do. Could someone verify that my modifications are correct for h17?

 

[daddybo]

I'm using I18 (modified for h17 -- 11vA is now 0 and 12v6 is now -3), but I'm kinda confused about exactly how to use it.

For example, 16v10 is 0 and 15v10 is +4 -- does this mean that I should stand with a 16v10 or a 15v10 with TC's greater than 0 and +4, respectively?

And 10v10 at +4, is there one that I should double?

And the modification I mentioned earlier (11vA at 0) has me doubling down with a TC of 0 or more, but my question is: according my BS chart it has me always doubling on 11 -- should I not do this against an A with a negative TC?

9v2 at +1, is this a double?

10vA at +4, is this a double?

16v9 at +5 -- I assume this is a stand?

13v2 at -1 -- BS has this as a stand, does the index change it? Like below TC -1 I should hit?

^^ Same thing for 12v4, 12v5, 12v6, and 13v3 at TC 0, -2, -3 (modified), and -2, respectively.

I'm assuming HiLo (don't really remember the indices for it) but my guess.. and please have someone check it...

16v10 Stand 0
15v10 Stand +4
10v10 +4 (could be a double Hilo.. although I thought it should be +5)
9v2 at +1, is this a double? (probably, but I thought it should be +2 (sometimes PC will look at you doubling a 9 on a 2 it's a play they look for)

10vA at +4, is this a double? (probably)

16v9 at +5 -- I assume this is a stand? (yes)

13v2 at -1 -- BS has this as a stand, does the index change it? Like below TC -1 I should hit? (yes - Hit)

 

[itakeyourmoney]

10v10 double is +5, just a typo in my original post.

Thanks for the help daddybo.

 

[daddybo]

oops sorry!

I was typing when you made your last post.

They look correct to me...according to your chart... even the mods for H17. If it's not I'm sure some of these hilo guys will blast me. I still would Double 9v2 on a little higher TC. Best I remember the advantage is borderline at tc+1. But I could be wrong.

 

[Pro21]

LOL 10 10 vs 4 I think you mean split.

 

[daddybo]

LOL 10 10 vs 4 I think you mean split.

I think it was 10v10 at tc+4 (I read it that way at first too)

 

[itakeyourmoney]

I think it was 10v10 at tc+4 (I read it that way at first too)

Yeah it was 10v10 at TC +4...

I don't have anything about 10,10 v 4 (only versus 5 and 6) -- is this something that I should be looking to split?

If anyone is interested I've attached a BS/I18 chart that may make it easier for people who are looking to memorize BS and I18.

Edit: I attached the image, but I don't know how to make it so that you can see it larger. If anyone wants it just send me a pm and I'll throw it up on a hosting site.

ITYM

 

[daddybo]

I don't have anything about 10,10 v 4 (only versus 5 and 6) -- is this something that I should be looking to split?

ITYM

10,10 v 4 is splitable .. but I don't know the hilo index for it anymore... I was converting from a level 2 count on my other posts. If I had to guess I would say +6 or better Hilo.. but please look it up. Its a situation that seldom arises and sometimes I stand even though the tc is high enough to split it. 4's have a way of having a seven hole card with them.. :laugh: And you know what's next on a High Count. ( ok, so I'm a little superstitious.)

db

 

[itakeyourmoney]

One last question:

Should I vary from BS only when TC > # or when TC >= #?

And if it's only when TC > #, should I round up -- say I have a 9v2 which is TC +1, and it's like TC +1.05 or so, should I still do it or wait for something in the like ~+1.5-2 range?

 

[daddybo]

One last question:

Should I vary from BS only when TC > # or when TC >= #?

And if it's only when TC > #, should I round up -- say I have a 9v2 which is TC +1, and it's like TC +1.05 or so, should I still do it or wait for something in the like ~+1.5-2 range?

I'm a little confused... 1. Your indices should indicate that some plays will be <= TC and some will be >= TC.

2. On your 9v2 example if the tc is >=+1 the index says double. i.e. 1.05 is >= +1, so double. (Go by the numbers unless you have a reason not to.)

3. In your case only vary from Basic Strategy when the count is in the range for the indices that you know. If you find you're not sure (it happens) use BS.

4 You're better at estimating decks than I am if you can come up with a TC of 1.05 while you are playing.

 

[itakeyourmoney]

I'm a little confused... 1. Your indices should indicate that some plays will be <= TC and some will be >= TC.

2. On your 9v2 example if the tc is >=+1 the index says double. i.e. 1.05 is >= +1, so double. (Go by the numbers unless you have a reason not to.)

3. In your case only vary from Basic Strategy when the count is in the range for the indices that you know. If you find you're not sure (it happens) use BS.

4 You're better at estimating decks than I am if you can come up with a TC of 1.05 while you are playing.

For the plays where the index says I should vary from BS and Hit (12v4, 12v5, 12v6, 13v2, and 13v3), I should Hit only when TC < # then? This makes sense, idk why I didn't notice that before haha -- I'm going to have to edit my key lol.

And for your 4th comment, I cannot estimate TC +1.05 haha, but you know how sometimes you may have like RC +3 with like just a little over 3 decks in the discard tray, so you know it's more than +3 but not close enough to like +3.5 or +4.

 

[daddybo]

For the plays where the index says I should vary from BS and Hit (12v4, 12v5, 12v6, 13v2, and 13v3), I should Hit only when TC < # then? This makes sense, idk why I didn't notice that before haha -- I'm going to have to edit my key lol.

And for your 4th comment, I cannot estimate TC +1.05 haha, but you know how sometimes you may have like RC +3 with like just a little over 3 decks in the discard tray, so you know it's more than +3 but not close enough to like +3.5 or +4.

Now your catching on! (I was kidding about the TC +1.05.. I knew what you meant.. those dang borderline counts.) :whip:

 

[itakeyourmoney]

My last question on this topic:

BS says to always double 11 -- I18 says to only double 11vA when TC is 0 (+1 for s17, 0 for h17), so my question is should I just hit an 11 against an Ace if the count is negative?

 

[callipygian]

BS says to always double 11 -- I18 says to only double 11vA when TC is 0 (+1 for s17, 0 for h17), so my question is should I just hit an 11 against an Ace if the count is negative?

Yes. Note that you should hit hard 11 vs. dealer A if the count is neutral in a S17 game.

 

[itakeyourmoney]

(Image Expired)
Here is the full-sized version of my BS/I18 table. Let me know if there are any errors on it.

Edit: What I did was just kept basic strategy for h17, das, da2, 6d, no surrender but removed the letters (H, S, P, etc.) and instead just have them as solid colors -- in the squares where there are numbers you should change your strategy if the TC is less than the green numbers (green indicating you should hit) or greater than any of the other numbers (do the action based on the color of the number, so TC of +2 in a spot with a red 4 you would Stand -- make sense?)

If anyone has questions feel free to post or pm me.

 

[Thunder]

You might as well put all of the indices on there like doubling with an 8 vs dealer 6 at +1 TC. I'm not sure how this isn't part of the Illustrious 18 as it's a hand I find myself having every now and then. Is there a strategy card for when the dealer stands on soft 17s?

 

[itakeyourmoney]

You might as well put all of the indices on there like doubling with an 8 vs dealer 6 at +1 TC. I'm not sure how this isn't part of the Illustrious 18 as it's a hand I find myself having every now and then. Is there a strategy card for when the dealer stands on soft 17s?

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php

Go there and you can just fill in the different rules, and it'll make you a personalized BS chart.

 

[Thunder]

No I meant do they have a BS card with the indexes on it for S17. Just so you know, you need to be very careful where you get your BS information from. Lots of the basic strategy cards on the internet are wrong. such as telling people to hit 11 vs aces which is not correct in S17 multiple deck shoe games. The bs strategy on here also is not correct for when you input LS S17 for 6 decks. It tells you to stand on 16 v 10 if you can't surrender. You would only stand if the running count was above 0.