Another bad session, running out of money, over 200 hours in

[JohnCrover]

What the fuck do I do? Quit?
I tried traveling out of state to play better games, it failed
I tried to grind out the hours, it's failing.
I feel like I have tried everything.
I'm thinking of quitting soon. Once I hit the 800-hour mark.
I just keep losing. I know my game is good because it has been evaluated by multiple professionals, and I know the quality of the game I'm playing isn't bad.
My new normal is taking a look at my EV in CVCX after a session, and then it saying I performed -0.7 SD below EV after a losing session. Losing is my normal.
I feel so hopeless, I just keep losing even though I'm doing everything right.
I just don't know what to do at this point.

 

[jupitor88]

i Don't know what to say man, i wouldn't go near the $5 blackjack tables without a 30 thousand dollar foot-pole, the losing streaks are too frequent and they last too damn long are you playing shuffle master shuffles or hand shuffles? im assuming machine shuffle they didn't have that in the 80s-90s , i believe most of the 7 headed dragons on this site (including Bosox, Don,and lucky larry) recommend to quit , work a job save money and try again with 10 or 20 grand, imo thats F'ed up to the 5th power on so many levels, CVCX says % ruin, you have access to CVBJ so you know your game is dead on. i am also assuming you lost 50 max bets or 5k just saying that makes my blood boil i can't imagine how you feel if your playing to fun then you lost nothing and got what you wanted if your playing for making a living its not going to happen unless you meet up with the grand masters on this site. i was watching Bobby Fischer interviews and he said you take a mans money you killed him sure hes still alive walking around out there but you basically killed him , the casinos killed ya John and you were brainwashed by James Grosjean and Don and Bosox and dickhead Larry =/

 

[LC Larry]

I haven't brainwashed anyone. In fact, I dont recommend blackjack card counting to anyone. But I won't stop them if they wish to go that route. There are many other ways to beat casino games, blackjack included, that are much easier with less volatility. I personally haven't counted in over 10 years. I moved on to bigger edges.

 

[jupitor88]

you hear that Johny? Larry doesn't play anymore he no like those ASM and Donny only played once in his entire life wrote a book on bj and now hailed blackjack god/genius i learned from this site to stay away from BJ21 you learned the hard way, maybe in 3 years you can make a come back?

 

[LC Larry]

Oh, I still play. I just not a card counter. We use a different method with a larger edge over the game.

 

[Midwest Player]

What the fuck do I do? Quit?
I tried traveling out of state to play better games, it failed
I tried to grind out the hours, it's failing.
I feel like I have tried everything.
I'm thinking of quitting soon. Once I hit the 800-hour mark.
I just keep losing. I know my game is good because it has been evaluated by multiple professionals, and I know the quality of the game I'm playing isn't bad.
My new normal is taking a look at my EV in CVCX after a session, and then it saying I performed -0.7 SD below EV after a losing session. Losing is my normal.
I feel so hopeless, I just keep losing even though I'm doing everything right.
I just don't know what to do at this point.

I'm curious as to where out of state you went. I thought you were making a come back.

 

[JohnCrover]

I have found peace. I'm quitting BJ when I hit the 1,000-hour session mark after not showing a profit.
There's only so much abuse a human can take and I have decided this is my threshold. I can't lose like this for the rest of my life. Even if it's just bad luck. I just can't keep killing myself like this.

 

[Hell'nBack]

Number one requisite to be an AP. You have to be a suicidal maniac-otherwise you will never survive the crucible of the trauma room.

 

[jupitor88]

Hell N back have you won money from BJ21? has Midwest player won from BJ? Joel asked over a decade ago who here has actually made a living at this game? 5k$? 10k? 20k year in and out? besides ZK and KJ (ZK winning isn't all that much its equal to poker) has anyone actually won upwards of 25 grand on this forum? Johns fighting a losing battle today tomorrow and forever =/

 

[Midwest Player]

Hell N back have you won money from BJ21? has Midwest player won from BJ? Joel asked over a decade ago who here has actually made a living at this game? 5k$? 10k? 20k year in and out? besides ZK and KJ (ZK winning isn't all that much its equal to poker) has anyone actually won upwards of 25 grand on this forum? Johns fighting a losing battle today tomorrow and forever =/

Yes, I'm lifetime ahead from playing BJ and in the beginning I had many losing years, but never large amounts. Lifetime definitely more than $25,000.

 

[jupitor88]

what is the total you lost?
what is the end total you won?
what was your min bet to max bet?
s17 late surrender allowed?
and finally what was the highest low you ever took?

 

[Hell'nBack]

what is the total you lost?
what is the end total you won?
what was your min bet to max bet?
s17 late surrender allowed?
and finally what was the highest low you ever took?

I will answer in reverse order.
65% drawdown on a horrendous campaign
All H17 games
$25 - $300
Classified except to say impressive and I don't engage in tax reporting

 

[JohnCrover]

Number one requisite to be an AP. You have to be a suicidal maniac-otherwise you will never survive the crucible of the trauma room.

Well, sitting at a blackjack table losing for literally years isn't exactly a viable career path. 1,000 hours of losing and I'm done. I'm just working like hell to get there so I can finally throw in the towel. I'm done with this shit.

 

[Hell'nBack]

Notice my avatar? It's what you become as a pro card counter.

 

[D0nnieD0minos]

If you're playing solo, have you considered joining a team? Perhaps reaching out to the pros who reviewed your play and know your skills?

 

[MrFatCat]

I will answer in reverse order.
65% drawdown on a horrendous campaign
All H17 games
$25 - $300
Classified except to say impressive and I don't engage in tax reporting

Do you pay taxes if you ever have to file a CTR? If the casino 1099s you (not sure if this is possible if you're not playing rated)?

 

[JohnCrover]

I'm not sure how the legal stuff works. I haven't had to CTR yet. It's my understanding that I only have to pay taxes on winnings? I'm still a net loser.

 

[MrFatCat]

I'm not sure how the legal stuff works. I haven't had to CTR yet. It's my understanding that I only have to pay taxes on winnings? I'm still a net loser.

There's two main options (and my post was directed at Hell'nBack, who indicated they don't report to the tax man): Schedule C or Other Income. The upside to Schedule C is that yes, because you are net loser, you would not owe anything. The Other Income method requires you to count winning sessions as income and losing ones as deductions.

I believe if you end up loser on the year it's unlikely that the tax man would know or even be all that angry with you if they come for you, but yeah, winnings are taxable income.

 

[BJgenius007]

What the fuck do I do? Quit?
I tried traveling out of state to play better games, it failed
I tried to grind out the hours, it's failing.
I feel like I have tried everything.
I'm thinking of quitting soon. Once I hit the 800-hour mark.
I just keep losing. I know my game is good because it has been evaluated by multiple professionals, and I know the quality of the game I'm playing isn't bad.
My new normal is taking a look at my EV in CVCX after a session, and then it saying I performed -0.7 SD below EV after a losing session. Losing is my normal.
I feel so hopeless, I just keep losing even though I'm doing everything right.
I just don't know what to do at this point.

Before you quit, you should try "play hand-shuflled game only" one last time. Before 2012, I have been winning most of my trips for decades. I have been using 8/9 side count to help my already strong Zen count. Winning at Blackjack table is so easy. Very rare to have back to back losing trips. I have grown my bankroll every year. But since 2013, I found out my bankroll was leaking. I no longer had that sense. My index play was always much better than Basic Strategy before 2012 and now worse after 2013. In the past I could sense which card is more likely to come, high, low or middle (8 and 9 is my combined side count). Between 2013 and 2016, in which time period I only played ASM BJ because I could get more hands, the next card became a random event to me. I lost the sense and most of the time, index play is worse than Basic Strategy. At first, I thought it is just the variance catching me after 40 years. Then after some study on Internet material, some people suggest 2012 is the year ASM (some Mod2 and all Mod3) gains the ability to identify the rank of cards and they clump cards. Some guy called it Beast Mode of ASM. (Contrary to most people said that I invented the term Beast Mode. It is not true. Someone wiser than me invented it. He just did not advocate it as hard as I.) Since 2016, I have separated my book keeping on hand-shuffled and ASM results. My profits are 109% on hand-shuflled and -9% on ASM. I regain my sense of next card coming on hand-shuffled game. And it is still a random event when I play ASM. I grautaully phased out my ASM playing. This years, I spend 95% of my time on hand-shuffled and could not be any happier because my winning percentage is back to the normal before 2012. I still go to play ASM and lost most of the time but it is just for research purpose.

The worst thing for new players is to practice using CVCX because the engine did not clump the cards like the real world ASM. You need to seek hand-shuffled games and verify it is not bad luck. It is not variance. You lose money because ASM clumps the cards to make index plays and Basic Strategy worthless.

 

[KewlJ]

Before you quit, you should try "play hand-shuflled game only" one last time. Before 2012, I have been winning most of my trips for decades. I have been using 8/9 side count to help my already strong Zen count. Winning at Blackjack table is so easy. Very rare to have back to back losing trips. I have grown my bankroll every year. But since 2013, I found out my bankroll was leaking. I no longer had that sense. My index play was always much better than Basic Strategy before 2012 and now worse after 2013. In the past I could sense which card is more likely to come, high, low or middle (8 and 9 is my combined side count). Between 2013 and 2016, in which time period I only played ASM BJ because I could get more hands, the next card became a random event to me. I lost the sense and most of the time, index play is worse than Basic Strategy. At first, I thought it is just the variance catching me after 40 years. Then after some study on Internet material, some people suggest 2012 is the year ASM (some Mod2 and all Mod3) gains the ability to identify the rank of cards and they clump cards. Some guy called it Beast Mode of ASM. (Contrary to most people said that I invented the term Beast Mode. It is not true. Someone wiser than me invented it. He just did not advocate it as hard as I.) Since 2016, I have separated my book keeping on hand-shuffled and ASM results. My profits are 109% on hand-shuflled and -9% on ASM. I regain my sense of next card coming on hand-shuffled game. And it is still a random event when I play ASM. I grautaully phased out my ASM playing. This years, I spend 95% of my time on hand-shuffled and could not be any happier because my winning percentage is back to the normal before 2012. I still go to play ASM and lost most of the time but it is just for research purpose.

The worst thing for new players is to practice using CVCX because the engine did not clump the cards like the real world ASM. You need to seek hand-shuffled games and verify it is not bad luck. It is not variance. You lose money because ASM clumps the cards to make index plays and Basic Strategy worthless.

Really? You want to go here again?

While I share some of your concerns about newer model ASM capabilities and have had and shared a couple (one in detail) "issues" that I have had, we differ on how widespread this problem is.

I too keep detailed records of my play that includes whether it is AMS or hand shuffle. I first began doing so, just so I would know the places that used ASM because I wanted to play them. Less down time = more profits per hour and second I don't like any "dead time". This is when a card counter is most exposed. This would include shuffle time, chip fills, buys-ins and color ups. Dead time is just no good. I want the game to move along. Get in - get out.

So I am able to compare my results of ASM play vs hand held games over many years and find no significant differences. They are remarkably unremarkable. So you and I differ a great deal as to how widespread it is. I think it is very isolated. And for good reason. It really isn't worth it for casinos to go that route. If it does occur it is likely to be a smaller, independent type casino, as both my cases were. But that doesn't mean that players shouldn't be vigilant to this and other possibilities of cheating.

Edit: shortened to avoid rehashing.