Backcounting rounds/hr

[Thunder]

What would you guys say is an average rounds/hr figure when backcounting in a 6 deck game where you only play hands when the TC is >-1. I'm guessing about 40. Assume you get up to go to another table when the TC drops below 0.

 

[FLASH1296]

• 20 hands per hour [wonging-in at +1] is a commonly accepted measure.
  
• It sounds like you are considering a different style [wonging-out at −2].
  
• 30+ hands per hour sounds likely, but others will have better estimates.
  
• Crucial factors here are both table-crowding and penetration.

 

[kewljason]

• 20 hands per hour [wonging-in at +1] is a commonly accepted measure.
  
• It sounds like you are considering a different style [wonging-out at −2].
  
• 30+ hands per hour sounds likely, but others will have better estimates.
  
• Crucial factors here are both table-crowding and penetration.

Disagree flash. Assuming I understand the question properly, you can do much better than that.

If you are talking playing off the top of shoe and wonging out at -1 or worse, you can get way more hands than that an hour, assuming you are in a location that has a reasonable number of tables available.

This is exactly my style of play and although I don't actually keep track of hands per hours, or even hours for that matter. (only hands played are important to me) I would guess my average to be 60+. I know I get at least as many hands per hour than if I played all, at 1 table for 1 hour. Of course as I stated the trick is having enough games available. As soon as the count hits -1, I am up and moving to the next table, chips in hand avoiding buyin and cashouts (down time) as well as shuffles. Ideally you need a good number of table and more than one pit in a casino and other casinos in a reasonably close proximity.

Incidentally, If this number seems high to you at first look, you need to consider the times that you hit a heads up situation and the count stays positive (or even neutral) for a couple consecutive shoes. You can rack up hundreds of hands in an hour, which will really push ur average.

 

[Thunder]

Kewl, I should add in that I'm talking about mostly full tables since it's quite hard to get heads up play unless you're a high roller or play in the wee hours of the morning on a weekday. I agree if you can find a heads up game then that number goes through the roof but at least for me that is pretty rare. Also do you color up when you leave the table or do you enjoy pissing off mgmt by sneaking off

Flash I wong out at -1 and wong in at anything above that (usually right after a freshly shuffled shoe)

 

[zengrifter]

If you are talking playing off the top of shoe and wonging out at -1 or worse, you can get way more hands than that an hour, assuming you are in a location that has a reasonable number of tables available.

This is exactly my style of play and although I don't actually keep track of hands per hours, or even hours for that matter. (only hands played are important to me) I would guess my average to be 60+. I know I get at least as many hands per hour than if I played all, at 1 table for 1 hour.

Sounds high there bucko. zg

 

[kewljason]

I don't color up, Thunder, but don't consider it "sneaking away". lol Maybe the casino does, I don't know, or really care for that matter. lol Since I buy in for very a small amount at a time, $100 which is 4 units, if the count tanks right away I probably only have a few chips to carry, so no need to color. If I have accumulated a good amount of chips I may color some before moving, but since I buy in as needed I usually dont have that many to carry.

As I stated, zg, I only really keep track of number of hands played, and just have a general idea of how long it takes me to get there. That way time doesn't get all muddled with 20 minute sandwich breaks, or bathroom breaks (legitimate, not wong out camo) or scouting time ect. I don't think 60 hands an hour estimate for me, is high, as I play a reasonable amount heads up and 1 other player, but will try to keep better track of it and get back to ya, bucko.

 

[Thunder]

:laugh::whip::laugh::whip::laugh: I've had casino personnel yell at me before for taking off instead of coloring. Buying in for 4 units at a time might be the smart way to go in regards to doing that but the problem is that if you have to rebuy, you leave yourself open for not getting credit for the rebuy. As I've mentioned in the past, roughly 50% of the time they don't enter in my rebuys into the computer and no I wasn't overestimating. Also I've noticed when wonging your comps will be lower because a lot of places don't give you your first $1 in comps until you've played one hour at the table or so it seems. And what do you do when they still have your players card but you're ready to wong out because the count has instantly dived?

 

[kewljason]

:laugh::whip::laugh::whip::laugh: I've had casino personnel yell at me before for taking off instead of coloring. Buying in for 4 units at a time might be the smart way to go in regards to doing that but the problem is that if you have to rebuy, you leave yourself open for not getting credit for the rebuy. As I've mentioned in the past, roughly 50% of the time they don't enter in my rebuys into the computer and no I wasn't overestimating. Also I've noticed when wonging your comps will be lower because a lot of places don't give you your first $1 in comps until you've played one hour at the table or so it seems. And what do you do when they still have your players card but you're ready to wong out because the count has instantly dived?

Comps aren't a priority for me. I usually have only one place that I consider home base that try to accumulate enough comps for free nights and I play a little longer there not wonging out as early. Other than that I seem to be able to accumulate enough comps for my meals. I don't eat at the steakhouse. I am happy with breakfast, a burger or occasional buffet.

Often I play unrated. Actually I almost always start out the shoe unrated. If the count tanks and I'm off and running, I don't have to wait for my card back or feel awkword that I only played 4 hands. And I am not losing anything because I wasn't going to accumulate comps for that short of a time anyway. But if the count goes north and it becomes likely that I will be there for that whole shoe and into the next, I will pull out my card and give it to the floorperson and say I forgot to give this too you when I sat down. They usually back you up a few minutes, plus it is benifitial because at the time I actually give the card the count is plus and I am betting more, so they are likely to record my average bet as higher. I don't know about that not accumulating comps for less than an hour because I almost never play an hour at one place and seem to get enough comps to meet my needs.

 

[Kasi]

What would you guys say is an average rounds/hr figure when backcounting in a 6 deck game where you only play hands when the TC is >-1. I'm guessing about 40. Assume you get up to go to another table when the TC drops below 0.

If one is "back-counting", the number of rounds physically played/hr depends on the number of rounds observed/hr.

If one can actually back-count, why would one ever play a hand at TC=0?

Does the game allow MSE or not?

Sounds more to me like you are referring to what I would call "wonging-out".
Where one plays the top of shoe but leaves at a defined count.

Sounds to me you would leave any shoe, playing from the top, when any RC is negative after one rd?

I really have no idea on "wonging-out" stuff lol.

Regardless, I have the vague feeling CVCX uses some algorhytm or something to get to an "hrly" rate somehow taking into account time lost between tables or something.

Basically, I ask you, rather than you asking us, what does your sim say?

To me, it's a very complicated question - I have the illusion I can handle back-counting scenarios but no such illusion when it comes to what I call "wonging-out" lol.

I don't know - post a pic of your sim if you want.

 

[Meistro]

In some locations back counting could possibly increase your # of hands played at positive counts if you are back counting multiple tables at the same time, contrasted with back counting a single table or playing all.

 

[sagefr0g]

If one is "back-counting", the number of rounds physically played/hr depends on the number of rounds observed/hr.

If one can actually back-count, why would one ever play a hand at TC=0?

Does the game allow MSE or not?

Sounds more to me like you are referring to what I would call "wonging-out".
Where one plays the top of shoe but leaves at a defined count.

Sounds to me you would leave any shoe, playing from the top, when any RC is negative after one rd?

I really have no idea on "wonging-out" stuff lol.

Regardless, I have the vague feeling CVCX uses some algorhytm or something to get to an "hrly" rate somehow taking into account time lost between tables or something.

Basically, I ask you, rather than you asking us, what does your sim say?

To me, it's a very complicated question - I have the illusion I can handle back-counting scenarios but no such illusion when it comes to what I call "wonging-out" lol.

I don't know - post a pic of your sim if you want.

kasi, below is some wonging in, errhh and i guess wonging out sort of stuff i was trying to work on with cvcx and your spread sheet.
i had to fool with a bunch of numbers in your spread sheet so as to get it to agree with cvcx, sort of thing.
like i dunno i put 10 hands per hour in cvcx, and really i'm not sure what the heck that means. and i wasn't sure how to heck to put that part in your spread sheet, like i was getting confused on the part about actual rounds played per hour and hands per hour seen or played in your sheet and what that meant as far as hands per hour in cvcx that i had set at ten.
like i don't even really know where i'm coming from setting the hands per hour in cvcx at ten.
it's confusing, lol.
what ever, i've been trying some wonging in and wonging right the heck out on some tables at a joint where the table min is to darned high for me to stomach for play all, but maybe not so bad for wonging in at a opportune time sort of thing.