Backed off ?

[revrac]

So a little background... I started counting about a year ago and don't live to close to any casinos so when I go I generally have been playing for pretty long sessions (which i've definitely read may not be the best idea) But i've been playing with a small enough spread of about 1-6 and 1-7 that I didn't really think that anyone would care or notice rather. A friend and I went to this one casino and I ended up making about 100 units, and we left. We go back the next day (probably not smart in hindsight) but again i figured i'm not betting large amounts of money, they wont' really notice.

Well i ended up losing about 25 units and was getting out more money when there is all this commotion in the pit. The dealer started to get me chips but a pit boss started yelling at him and another one ran up and shoved the chips back in the tray while another one was giving dirty looks towards the table. I was like what is going on and thought maybe they were going to change out the chips or something... Then i feel a tap on my shoulder and turn around to see another PB who had been around earlier. He says why don't you come back here so we can talk. He pulls me away from the table and says "I appreciate what your trying to do but we don't need any more of your action. You need to go." I then walk out the door and tell my friend i'm being kicked out.

So now i'm wondering did they know what was going on or were they just unhappy that i took money the day before? I was down for that day so was a little confusing that they would then boot me.


Now thinking back, there was one guy who sat at the table and started making HUGE bets and bought in for about 500 units. The pit was watching very intently when he would play as he often put the max bet out. I don't know if this drew attention to the table and maybe then they picked up on what I was doing or what? If a big better is at the table is it probably best to find another one or do you think I just played too long or is it possible they didn't know at all and just wanted me out cause i had made money last time??? I feel like i have pretty good cover as i will joke with the dealers and the pit if they are the type to joke around, I generally have a drink in front of me and will watch TV if they are looking my way or tip when i know someone is watching and have conversations with people around me.

 

[sabre]

If surveillance is the one that observed your play and determined you weren't a great customer, then all the tipping, drinking, joking, watching the TV in the world isn't going to prevent you from being caught. Short sessions and ratholing are your best weapons against the eye. It's quite possible that your large win from the night before prompted them to scrutinize your play the next night.

Playing at the same table as a whale isn't a great idea. Playing at another table in the same pit is. The floor and surveillance will be far more concerned about him.

If this was a shoe game, you've learned a valuable lesson re: bet spreads. Your anemic 1-6 spread didn't buy you any longevity. You would have been far better off in hindsight to employ a stronger spread.

 

[revrac]

If surveillance is the one that observed your play and determined you weren't a great customer, then all the tipping, drinking, joking, watching the TV in the world isn't going to prevent you from being caught. Short sessions and ratholing are your best weapons against the eye. It's quite possible that your large win from the night before prompted them to scrutinize your play the next night.

Playing at the same table as a whale isn't a great idea. Playing at another table in the same pit is. The floor and surveillance will be far more concerned about him.

If this was a shoe game, you've learned a valuable lesson re: bet spreads. Your anemic 1-6 spread didn't buy you any longevity. You would have been far better off in hindsight to employ a stronger spread.

It was a pitch game and not a shoe so I didn't want to much higher of a spread but i guess it may of been fine if i just didn't stay as long. I will keep in mind for the future to not play with a big better and try to keep it shorter. Just hard to keep it short when there aren't that many casinos around and its such a long way to get to them.

 

[revrac]

Oh, i got another question if someone happens to know or have an idea.

Why would they wait until i was buying back in to say anything to me or do you think it just happened that it was just about the time they decided to say something?

 

[Sharky]

if they suspect you are an AP they'll 86 you when you are losing, too. they seem to enjoy it....even bask in it...best to just leave (and color up later)

 

[moo321]

Using smaller spreads on pitch games will only buy you longevity if they're watching the game. If they're clueless, it doesn't matter than much what you spread.

And if someone in surveillance tagged you, it doesn't matter what game you were playing, there's a counter in surveillance and you're gonna get tagged.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Oh, i got another question if someone happens to know or have an idea.

Why would they wait until i was buying back in to say anything to me or do you think it just happened that it was just about the time they decided to say something?

It could be any number of reasons. Based on the reaction of the PB, I suspect it was a quick decision based on a previous suspicion. In places where the PB is expected to make decisions regarding backoffs (usually smaller places), they will observe you after you've been suspected to make sure they're backing off an unwanted player and not just a civilian that changes their bet sizes randomly. If they were on the fence about backing you off and then saw you re-buying, they may have felt the need to make a quick judgement before you were able to do any more "damage." And as far as winning and losing goes, many APs will tell you that they've experienced more heat and backoffs when losing rather than winning, strangely enough. This has been my experience as well.

 

[moo321]

It could be any number of reasons. Based on the reaction of the PB, I suspect it was a quick decision based on a previous suspicion. In places where the PB is expected to make decisions regarding backoffs (usually smaller places), they will observe you after you've been suspected to make sure they're backing off an unwanted player and not just a civilian that changes their bet sizes randomly. If they were on the fence about backing you off and then saw you re-buying, they may have felt the need to make a quick judgement before you were able to do any more "damage." And as far as winning and losing goes, many APs will tell you that they've experienced more heat and backoffs when losing rather than winning, strangely enough. This has been my experience as well.

Any time you're moving a large amount of chips or cash, this can bring heat. Say you're spreading 10-100 and you're losing your ass. You lose $3k and keep chasing. Most ploppies don't chase like this, they bet it all, or slow down.

You can definitely get heat winning OR losing large amounts. Particularly if they need to re-fill the tray because of you.

For this reason, stop-losses AND stop-wins can be useful.