Can IRS tax your winnings

[BJgenius007]

When I began playing BJ about 20 years ago, I was told never to win over $3000, at least not at the same casino, because there is some tax complexity. Is such law still the same?

Can IRS tax your winnings if you only cash $2800 a day? I mean when you have won $2800, you just leave the table and come to play tomorrow. This way, IRS shouldn't have any report on you and know if you are winning.

 

[BJLFS]

I think now you fill out a CTR if there is more than $10K transacted. Meaning 10K has changed hands. It does not say anything about winnings but just that $10K changed hands. But aside from that I'm not sure.

 

[Sonny]

I mean when you have won $2800, you just leave the table and come to play tomorrow. This way, IRS shouldn't have any report on you and know if you are winning.

You are for asking advice on how to hide your income from the IRS? On a public message board?

-Sonny-

 

[paddywhack]

You are for asking advice on how to hide your income from the IRS? On a public message board?

-Sonny-

Uhhhhhhh. That's not what he meant, I'm sure

 

[BJgenius007]

You are for asking advice on how to hide your income from the IRS? On a public message board?

-Sonny-

I am asking about a gaming law which is this forum about. I think you need to file CTR form when you win $10,000 a day. The casino also will ask your ID and make a note on your record just in case the players make a few trips to the cage and your winnings exceed $10,000 that day. What I was saying in the first post is that you don't win more than $3,000 to avoid taxation, or more importantly, to give your personal information to the casino so they know you can win. If you cash out only $2,800, they can't ask your ID.

 

[paddywhack]

I am asking about a gaming law which is this forum about. I think you need to file CTR form when you win $10,000 a day. The casino also will ask your ID and make a note on your record just in case the players make a few trips to the cage and your winnings exceed $10,000 that day. What I was saying in the first post is that you don't win more than $3,000 to avoid taxation, or more importantly, to give your personal information to the casino so they know you can win. If you cash out only $2,800, they can't ask your ID.

Sure they can ask. I've been asked for ID to cash a 1k chip. Does it get recorded anywhere????? And as far as I know, none of it, even CTR's are considered evidence of a "win" at a casino to get the IRS's attention. But then again, I've never crossed that threshhold, so what do I know.

 

[BJgenius007]

Sure they can ask. I've been asked for ID to cash a 1k chip. Does it get recorded anywhere????? And as far as I know, none of it, even CTR's are considered evidence of a "win" at a casino to get the IRS's attention. But then again, I've never crossed that threshhold, so what do I know.

That is what I was asking. Does $3000 threshold become lower these days? Since I moved 10 years ago, I hardly play BJ any more. But now we have casinos offering table games in PA, I began to play again. I need an update on gaming laws.

 

[Sonny]

I think you need to file CTR form when you win $10,000 a day.

It doesn't matter how much you win, it matters how much cash changes hands. Anything over $10k generates a CRT, and a casinos might start to harass you earlier than that. Regardless of your playing results, anytime you buy in or cash out for more than $10k you will be required to show ID. It is possible to avoid this by keeping a stockpile of chips (legal), limiting your transactions (legal) and structuring your cash outs (illegal) to avoid the CTR, but you probably won't have to limit your wins.

Does $3000 threshold become lower these days?

It depends on the casino. They can ask for ID at any amount and some casinos are sweatier than others. In most cases you are not required to show ID but they ask anyway.

What I was saying in the first post is that you don't win more than $3,000 to avoid taxation, or more importantly, to give your personal information to the casino so they know you can win.

Just to be clear, limiting your transactions this way does not avoid taxation. You still owe tax on that income. All it does is try to conceal your income so that you don't have to report it to the government. As a moderator I have to say that. Nothing personal.

-Sonny-

 

[BJgenius007]

Just to be clear, limiting your transactions this way does not avoid taxation. You still owe tax on that income. All it does is try to conceal your income so that you don't have to report it to the government. As a moderator I have to say that. Nothing personal.

-Sonny-

Of course, you do. And just be clear, every good citizen should pay their tax even for the incomes that the government don't know about.

 

[Sonny]

Of course, you do. And just be clear, every good citizen should pay their tax even for the incomes that the government don't know about.

I completely agree.

-Sonny-

 

[zengrifter]

Wink wink nod nod z:eyepatch:g

 

[QFIT]

It is illegal for a casino to use CTR info for their own purposes. It is illegal for the IRS to use CTRs for tax purposes. Nothing to do with taxes. Banks fill out SARs and CTRs without notifying customers often. Banks and casinos hate them.

Of course, what happens and what is legal are two different things. Obviously, it must be illegal to refuse to pay taxes. Something Wesley Snipes is busily learning.

 

[b jay cobbson]

CTRs and the IRS

It is illegal for the IRS to use CTRs for tax purposes.

While CTRs are not an item of income like a W-2G, 1099 and other forms filed with Treasury, they can and sometimes do appear on your IRS transcript. I have seen this in several instances. I don't know the criteria for inclusion on the transcript. In an audit you can be asked to explain where the money came from in an outbound transaction such as purchasing casino cheques foe cash at a blackjack table.

FinCen and the IRS are both branches of Treasury and share CTR and SAR information in a common data base. (If there is a suspected problem, the IRS CID (Criminal Investigation Division) is brought into the picture. You don't want this "worst nightmare" situation to ever evolve.

Cobbson

 

[blackriver]

While CTRs are not an item of income like a W-2G, 1099 and other forms filed with Treasury, they can and sometimes do appear on your IRS transcript. I have seen this in several instances. I don't know the criteria for inclusion on the transcript. In an audit you can be asked to explain where the money came from in an outbound transaction such as purchasing casino cheques foe cash at a blackjack table.

FinCen and the IRS are both branches of Treasury and share CTR and SAR information in a common data base. (If there is a suspected problem, the IRS CID (Criminal Investigation Division) is brought into the picture. You don't want this "worst nightmare" situation to ever evolve.

Cobbson

i thought the irs could never use ur volunteered tax info against you. like a drug dealer/hitman is supposed to be able to file taxes and not get punished for it, etc.

 

[Tarzan]

10,000

It's $10,000 within any 24 hour period. Of course I'm not sure how this can be of much relevance of income because it's not hard (if you are playing for some big money) to take a loss of a few thousand for the day but be left standing there with over $10,000 in chips on your person! You end up not being able to cash them all out that day is all but cashing out for $11,000 at the window does not mean you actually made $11,000. What you cash out for has no bearing on whether you gained or lost when it comes to chips!

I watched a foreign national stroll up to a cashier's window just in front of me with a large amount of chips once, maybe 35,000 or so. They started asking him for ID, etc. He had no clue what was going on, couldn't speak a single word of english, provided a passport and became visibly nervous upon getting a hard time from the cage... YOU AIN'T IN ASIA ANY MO' BOY! I don't know what happened because I ended up just going to another window and there was no explaining anything to him because of the language barrier.

The original question is yes. The IRS can tax anything and everything! If you get handed a 20 dollar bill from a little old lady that you helped cross the street back when you were a boy scout... this is taxable income!

 

[bj21abc]

All depends what he was playing.

"Gambling winnings (Income Code 28). In general, nonresident aliens are subject to NRA withholding at 30% on the gross proceeds from gambling won in the United States if that income is not effectively connected with a U.S. trade or business and is not exempted by treaty. The tax withheld and winnings are reportable on Forms 1042 and 1042-S.

No tax is imposed on nonbusiness gambling income a nonresident alien wins playing blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel in the United States. A Form W-8BEN is not required to obtain the exemption from withholding, but a Form W-8BEN may be required for purposes of Form 1099 reporting and backup withholding. Gambling income that is not subject to NRA withholding is not subject to reporting on Form 1042-S.

It's $10,000 within any 24 hour period. Of course I'm not sure how this can be of much relevance of income because it's not hard (if you are playing for some big money) to take a loss of a few thousand for the day but be left standing there with over $10,000 in chips on your person! You end up not being able to cash them all out that day is all but cashing out for $11,000 at the window does not mean you actually made $11,000. What you cash out for has no bearing on whether you gained or lost when it comes to chips!

I watched a foreign national stroll up to a cashier's window just in front of me with a large amount of chips once, maybe 35,000 or so. They started asking him for ID, etc. He had no clue what was going on, couldn't speak a single word of english, provided a passport and became visibly nervous upon getting a hard time from the cage... YOU AIN'T IN ASIA ANY MO' BOY! I don't know what happened because I ended up just going to another window and there was no explaining anything to him because of the language barrier.

The original question is yes. The IRS can tax anything and everything! If you get handed a 20 dollar bill from a little old lady that you helped cross the street back when you were a boy scout... this is taxable income!

 

[pit15]

I'll give you the facts.. what you want to do with them is your business.

Gambling winnings ARE taxable income
The IRS relies on you to report your winnings (with the exception of winnings that generate W-2Gs, those they know about)
If you do NOT report them, chances are they will NOT find out about it, however, if you don't report them you ARE committing a crime.
The legal requirements are to keep a "gambler's diary"

Bottom line: You can hide your wins and most likely get away with doing so, but it's a crime to do so. If you choose to do so, keep your mouth shut about it.

 

[FLASH1296]

pit15,

Thanx for spelling out the "facts on the ground"

 

[aslan]

i thought the irs could never use ur volunteered tax info against you. like a drug dealer/hitman is supposed to be able to file taxes and not get punished for it, etc.

Blackriver,

I don't think that is true. That would be equivalent to ignoring the commission of a crime. I suggest you cease and desist your drug and hit-man activities at once.View attachment 7334 Chances are, with all the millions of filings, no IRS agent will actually read the details of your past filings. But just to be on the safe side, I believe a cessation of activities is in your best interest. I think you might try turning to full time AP. :grin::whip:

 

[pit15]

Blackriver,

I don't think that is true. That would be equivalent to ignoring the commission of a crime. I suggest you cease and desist your drug and hit-man activities at once.View attachment 7334 Chances are, with all the millions of filings, no IRS agent will actually read the details of your past filings. But just to be on the safe side, I believe a cessation of activities is in your best interest. I think you might try turning to full time AP. :grin::whip:

Well how THAT works is if your income is coming from something illegal, you don't put "selling illegal drugs" as your occupation on your tax return. You simply report it as "other income".

The general policy is the IRS won't question where the money came from if you're reporting it as other income or something. Now if you're a dumbass and write down you're doing something illegal on your tax return then you're kind of putting them in a position where they have to do something about it now.