fallout from a big win

[kewljason]

A couple weeks ago, I posted about what was for me, a rather large win a while back. As circumstanses would have it, this event took place in the slow morning hours when the casino was slow and I was alone at the table for most of the damage. There was no doubt in my mind that I had drawn attention. By the end of the shoe, one of the pit fella's had taken an interest in my play. :sad:

I have not returned to that location since the event, but that didn't stop the fallout from the event. Last evening I was backed off. About 2 miles from the casino. I was having a brewski, watching a basketball game at a bar, when that very pit gent, sat down bought me a beer and told me that he was not going to let me play on his shift anymore. I was in total shock! I don't receive many back offs to begin with, but never in my wildest dreams would expect this. He was very nice. Very friendly. And we had a nice chat. He even provided me with a little bit of info about how often he sees counters, and how often he backs them off. He told me he only backs people off when it becomes so obvious that he fears he could get heat if he doesn't. He said he had identified me a while ago, but had previously looked the other way, but no longer could. He bought me a second drink before he departed. Certainly about the nicest back off one could ever hope to get, but still a back off, and one that clearly will not disappear with time.

Again, he only stated that he could not let me play on his shift. I didn't want to press him on that. I will find out the exact meaning of that when the time comes. Has anyone ever encountered such a backoff, or I guess more accurately, a warning, in a setting away from the casino?

 

[Percy]

Thanks for sharing this great story Jason.

Given that you were going to get backed off anyway, this is just about the best possible way it could have happened.

Smart play on not asking him about the fine print of your backing off too.

 

[Solo player]

You should have asked for a copy of his work schedule.:grin:

 

[ohbehave]

Well isn't this some news! KJ, you may have hit the lotto twice in that session. First for the huge win and second for a floor manager who is not trigger-happy with counters. It sounds like you dodged a bullet.

 

[Friendo]

Creepy story



That was actually scary.

At least he didn't let himself into your home and cook you breakfast before waking you.

You should not be wearing a fro. I did not know you were. It is not a fashionable do these days, and it makes you too memorable. I would lose it.

This confirms my suspicion that obscene wins in a session can force the hand of an otherwise unconcerned floor person who is in the know.

You may catch hell here for talking with him, BTW. I also wonder whether it's a smart move for him to risk being seen at a bar with a frequent customer whose surveillance footage must make interesting viewing.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Over Winning

I think I did mention the thought of cutting back bets when approaching huge wins and making them up by betting up a little when losing?

Example:
When winning big: Cut bets by 25%
When losing big: Raise bets by 25%
It's subjective when "big" is
This will hurt NO, but we do what we gotta do!
It will also require a bigger bank.

If I remember you even went super max bets when you were winning big? Did this act alone cost you? Who's to say. The mananger mentioned he had to act when it was obvious!

So what to learn?
Don't win to much
Don't rub their face in it
Seems reasonble

Finally, anyone who lives in casino land needs to realize they are in enemy territory. It's like James Bond living in Moscow!

Sorry Kewl, stay that way!

 

[kewljason]

That was actually scary.

At least he didn't let himself into your home and cook you breakfast before waking you.

You should not be wearing a fro. I did not know this, but it is not a fashionable do these days. I would lose it.

This confirms my suspicion that obscene wins in a session can force the hand of an otherwise unconcerned floor person who is in the know.

You may catch hell here for talking with him, BTW. I also wonder whether it's a smart move for him to risk being seen at a bar with a frequent customer whose surveillance footage must make interesting viewing.

ok I fixed the 'fro' (forgot the m in the title for those confused).

That's an interesting thought about about not only being seen with, but buying drinks for a customer that won big on his shift. Hadn't given that much thought.

As to Ohbehave's comment about dodging a bullet and hitting the lottery twice. I didn't take it that way at all. Time will tell though.

 

[Gamblor]

"In Livy's account, the tyrannical Roman King, Tarquin the Proud, received a messenger from his son Sextus Tarquinius asking what he should do next in Gabii, since he had become all-powerful there. Rather than answering the messenger verbally, Tarquin went into his garden, took a stick, and symbolically swept it across his garden, thus cutting off the heads of the tallest poppies that were growing there. The messenger... returned to Gabii and told Sextus what he had seen. Sextus realised that his father wished him to put to death all of the most eminent people of Gabii, which he then did."

 

[ohbehave]

I'm sure its too soon to know if there will be other fall out as well but it seems were given a mild backoff. And with a little luck maybe no other shifts or stores will hear anything about it.

 

[kewljason]

I think I did mention the thought of cutting back bets when approaching huge wins and making them up by betting up a little when losing?

Example:
When winning big: Cut bets by 25%
When losing big: Raise bets by 25%
It's subjective when "big" is
This will hurt NO, but we do what we gotta do!
It will also require a bigger bank.

If I remember you even went super max bets when you were winning big? It appears this was incorrect? The mananger mentioned he had to act when it was obvious!

So what to learn?
Don't win to much
Don't rub their face in it
Seems reasonble

Finally, anyone who lives in casino land needs to realize they are in enemy territory. It's like James Bond living in Moscow!

Sorry Kewl, stay that way!

That's a hard one to accept, Avenger. We are in this to win. When we have that dream session come along once in a blue moon, the idea of pulling back and intentionally winning less is hard to swallow. :sad: I am going to have to give that some thought.

I don't buy the James Bond in Moscow bit. If you live in Vegas, you are going to know someone or of someone that works in the industry. Especially if you are rooted here with family which I am not. There would be a good chance your brother-in-law or cousin's wife or a friends brother works in the industry. And if you spend a good deal of time in the casino environment, then you are going to see and recognise some of these folks out in everyday life, at the grocery store, doctor's office or bar. They have a life as well as being a critter.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Wow

"In Livy's account, the tyrannical Roman King, Tarquin the Proud, received a messenger from his son Sextus Tarquinius asking what he should do next in Gabii, since he had become all-powerful there. Rather than answering the messenger verbally, Tarquin went into his garden, took a stick, and symbolically swept it across his garden, thus cutting off the heads of the tallest poppies that were growing there. The messenger... returned to Gabii and told Sextus what he had seen. Sextus realised that his father wished him to put to death all of the most eminent people of Gabii, which he then did."

What an excellent post!

The parts in our story are played by:
Tarquin the Proud = Casino manager
Sextus Tarquinius = Shift manager
Messenger = Security
Poppies = Ploppies (civilians)
Eminent people of Gabii = APS

Moral of our story? If an AP stands out from the Poppies, he will get culled!

Ploppies; I liked civilians, should now be called Poppies? So we never forget the moral of this story?

 

[Gamblor]

What an excellent post!

The parts in our story are played by:
Tarquin the Proud = Casino manager
Sextus Tarquinius = Shift manager
Messenger = Security
Poppies = Ploppies (civilians)
Eminent people of Gabii = APS

Moral of our story? If an AP stands out from the Poppies, he will get culled!

Ploppies; I liked civilians, should now be called Poppies? So we never forget the moral of this story?

Yes, better to look like a tall ploppy than a tall poppy.

 

[Billy C1]

You're probably okay

A couple weeks ago, I posted about what was for me, a rather large win a while back. As circumstanses would have it, this event took place in the slow morning hours when the casino was slow and I was alone at the table for most of the damage. There was no doubt in my mind that I had drawn attention. By the end of the shoe, one of the pit fella's had taken an interest in my play. :sad:

I have not returned to that location since the event, but that didn't stop the fallout from the event. Last evening I was backed off. About 2 miles from the casino. I was having a brewski, watching a basketball game at a bar, when that very pit gent, sat down bought me a beer and told me that he was not going to let me play on his shift anymore. I was in total shock! I don't receive many back offs to begin with, but never in my wildest dreams would expect this. He was very nice. Very friendly. And we had a nice chat. He even provided me with a little bit of info about how often he sees counters, and how often he backs them off. He told me he only backs people off when it becomes so obvious that he fears he could get heat if he doesn't. He said he had identified me a while ago, but had previously looked the other way, but no longer could. He bought me a second drink before he departed. Certainly about the nicest back off one could ever hope to get, but still a back off, and one that clearly will not disappear with time.

Again, he only stated that he could not let me play on his shift. I didn't want to press him on that. I will find out the exact meaning of that when the time comes. Has anyone ever encountered such a backoff, or I guess more accurately, a warning, in a setting away from the casino?

It appears that this fellow likes you (hopefully, not too much:laugh. For that reason, I'm guessing he didn't "out" you to other shifts. There's only one way to know and I'd wait a few weeks to find that out.

BillyC1

 

[blackjack avenger]

Life's Lessons.

That's a hard one to accept, Avenger. We are in this to win. When we have that dream session come along once in a blue moon, the idea of pulling back and intentionally winning less is hard to swallow. :sad: I am going to have to give that some thought.

Well, one either learns life's lessons or not? Apparently the massive win is what did it? How do you avoid a massive win? By betting less when winning big. Also, you make it up in EV when you bet bigger when losing big. So no net loss in EV, but loss in NO. However, your NO in terms of time may have just increased because you lost at least a shift?

The dream session can also be when you are losing big, bet up and make a comeback?

All play is continuous why win so much at one time and rub their face in it? Apparently, they don't like it!

I don't buy the James Bond in Moscow bit. If you live in Vegas, you are going to know someone or of someone that works in the industry. Especially if you are rooted here with family which I am not. There would be a good chance your brother-in-law or cousin's wife or a friends brother works in the industry. And if you spend a good deal of time in the casino environment, then you are going to see and recognise some of these folks out in everyday life, at the grocery store, doctor's office or bar. They have a life as well as being a critter.

You are thinking of this the wrong way. The KGB is all around in Moscow. How did you get caught? Not in the casino, but around town! Am I saying you can't live a life in Moscow? No, but apparently you need to be aware! If you remeber faces of casino staff that notice you maybe you get out of that bar before he spots you? At higher level play the spy analogy is not to far off! We infiltrate, extract while hiding our indentity, having a false one or hoping not to be remembered all while hoping not to get caught.

Your not paranoid if their out to get you!

 

[Machinist]

KJ,,,,It's the way it is. Don't let it get to you. I had a nice 86ing years ago with machines. It basically boiled down to his job or "My job". Unfortunately it was his casino LOL!!!!
We shook hands after signing the paperwork and wished each other well, understanding and respecting each other. He was well known for ratting you off to neighboring casino's, but he didn't.
I would suspect that to be your case, from your description.
Just remember, people, management, owners of casino's change in a blink of an eye!!
Thanks for sharing.

Mac

 

[Machinist]

Well, one either learns life's lessons or not? Apparently the massive win is what did it? How do you avoid a massive win? By betting less when winning big. Also, you make it up in EV when you bet bigger when losing big. So no net loss in EV, but loss in NO. However, your NO in terms of time may have just increased because you lost at least a shift?

The dream session can also be when you are losing big, bet up and make a comeback?

All play is continuous why win so much at one time and rub their face in it? Apparently, they don't like it!



You are thinking of this the wrong way. The KGB is all around in Moscow. How did you get caught? Not in the casino, but around town! Am I saying you can't live a life in Moscow? No, but apparently you need to be aware! If you remeber faces of casino staff that notice you maybe you get out of that bar before he spots you? At higher level play the spy analogy is not to far off! We infiltrate, extract while hiding our indentity, having a false one or hoping not to be remembered all while hoping not to get caught.

Your not paranoid if their out to get you!

You do have a point........But dam it's hard not to go for the throat when this stuff happens, in Blackjack and other assorted games.......
Even if you back down a bit.........your probably still made!!

Machinist

 

[kewljason]

It appears that this fellow likes you (hopefully, not too much:laugh. For that reason, I'm guessing he didn't "out" you to other shifts. There's only one way to know and I'd wait a few weeks to find that out.

BillyC1

I think you're right, Billy. He does like me. Maybe he is lucky that I didn't "out" him to other shifts. :laugh:

How did you get caught? Not in the casino, but around town!

Your not paranoid if their out to get you!

I didn't get caught 'around town', the message was just delivered there. If not there it would have been delivered in the casino at a later date involing other casino personel which could have made it even worse, no?

And yes, you are still paranoid if they are out to get you. Just rightfully so.

 

[kewljason]

You do have a point........But dam it's hard not to go for the throat when this stuff happens, in Blackjack and other assorted games.......
Even if you back down a bit.........your probably still made!!

Machinist

Yeah, I am very intrigued by this concept of Avengers. Bet less to win less, because you are winning. I understand what he is saying and makes sense for longterm thinking, but still hard to swallow. Would love to hear some other players thoughts on this.

 

[horse_johnson]

I know relatively little about this subject, but this story scares the hell out of me. People who work for casinos, especially in the pit, are slimy by definition. If they know where you go for a drink, isn't it plausible that they know where you live, or where you park your car at night? You could be a target for a robbery, or worse.

If this gentleman simply wanted to back you off in the course of his official duties, he would have notified surveillance and expended no further effort. Instead, it's at least possible that he or someone is following you around. And for what?

 

[blackjack avenger]

There is a Difference, Almost

You do have a point........But dam it's hard not to go for the throat when this stuff happens, in Blackjack and other assorted games.......
Even if you back down a bit.........your probably still made!!

Machinist

Some make the argument to not spread or bet big so as to not draw attention? The biggest attention getter is winning big!

I think some are having problems with the concept because it's situational and subjective and does not fit easily into sims or book recommendations. However, anyone who has bet big, winning big and has multiple suits standing around may understand.

Blackjack is everywhere almost 24/7, no reason to play likes it's the last time you will ever play, unless apparently you want it to be.

If one is playing a rare event or a promo, one can make the play it aggressive argument. However, even in this situation one could over many promos bet bigger when losing and smaller when winning, so one is not ever a tall Poppy!

The more aggressive you are in scaling back when winning the less likely you are made!

As concise as possible.
Casinos don't want to lose a lot of money to APs!