Fresh Shuffles - Any Advanced Techniques?

[celadore]

Since I started counting cards, I have noticed that I am one of a very few blackjack players in my city (other players play Pontoon). This means that everytime I go to play I have to open a new table and wonging is not an option for me.

This question is about the effect of a newly shuffled shoe. I have noticed that in a fresh shuffle, card clumping is very rare. I guess it has something to do with the way the cards are distributed when the cards are shuffled for the first time. As time goes by, card clumping becomes more common. I know card clumping can have some devastating effects when the count keeps going up and up and never comes down.

Is there any benefits to playing shoes when you know that card clumping is not expected. Should this make any difference to the way I play - can I take advantage of it - or should I just ignore this?

 

[kewljason]

This question is about the effect of a newly shuffled shoe. I have noticed that in a fresh shuffle, card clumping is very rare.

I have always found just the opposite. Have always felt the initial suffle was inadequate. Usually will not only see high or low cards clumped together but suit clumping as well. (5 of clubs, followed by the 6 of clubs followed two cards later by the 8 of clubs, ect) Even when they perform a "wash" as they do in Atlantic city before the shuffle, they are just pushing clumps of cards around the table.

 

[rukus]

Since I started counting cards, I have noticed that I am one of a very few blackjack players in my city (other players play Pontoon). This means that everytime I go to play I have to open a new table and wonging is not an option for me.

This question is about the effect of a newly shuffled shoe. I have noticed that in a fresh shuffle, card clumping is very rare. I guess it has something to do with the way the cards are distributed when the cards are shuffled for the first time. As time goes by, card clumping becomes more common. I know card clumping can have some devastating effects when the count keeps going up and up and never comes down.

Is there any benefits to playing shoes when you know that card clumping is not expected. Should this make any difference to the way I play - can I take advantage of it - or should I just ignore this?

the effects of clumping should not affect you much in either direction, there have been sims run on this and it has been written about.
just open a table, play off the top of a shoe and wong out when desired (that wong out point is up to you...). then go start the same thing at a new table. come up with your own excuses for leaving a table, you will need them, especially if you open a table and get up 1 minute later.

 

[celadore]

the effects of clumping should not affect you much in either direction, there have been sims run on this and it has been written about.
just open a table, play off the top of a shoe and wong out when desired (that wong out point is up to you...). then go start the same thing at a new table. come up with your own excuses for leaving a table, you will need them, especially if you open a table and get up 1 minute later.

I should wong out more often - but I decided early on that I'm just going to have to suffer through all those negative counts otherwise I'll never get enough play time. All casinos in my city offer a single blackjack table only - and driving between casinos is like burning profits on petrol :cry:. More hours I play - more money I'll make.

As long as I'm playing with an advantage and winning at the end of the day - it keeps me happy :grin:.

 

[Sonny]

All casinos in my city offer a single blackjack table only - and driving between casinos is like burning profits on petrol :cry:.

You don’t have to go to another casino, just leave the table until the dealer shuffles. You can take a bathroom break, make some phone calls, go to the bar, check on a friend at another game, get some fresh air (if people are smoking), go to the ATM, or any other excuse. You can probably do this at least once or twice an hour to win more money.

-Sonny-

 

[shadroch]

Perhaps you should look into why everyone else is playing pontoon. Could it be the rules on that game are so much better?

 

[celadore]

Perhaps you should look into why everyone else is playing pontoon. Could it be the rules on that game are so much better?

I decided to master Blackjack first as there are so many more resources dedicated to BJ online. I know that there is a book on card counting with pontoon available online. Apparently beating Pontoon is easier than beating blackjack!! (according to unverified reviews). Must be something to do with the 5 card variations and 2:1 payouts on pontoon. But I think wonging is less important in Pontoon as you have a different kind of advantage with there is a negative count (better chance of 5 cards).

People here play pontoon because they find it more fun. You can win/lose a lot very quickly. That is why it is popular. I very much doubt any of them are AP's though.

I have twice come across other counters here - both times at the BJ table.

 

[Kasi]

I have always found just the opposite. Have always felt the initial suffle was inadequate. .

Me too lol.

Once, after the wash and all that, I won almost every hand in a shoe.

Thinking that was cool, I did it again at the top of a shift and got creamed lol.

But the clumping was obvious.

I don't think any shuffle is random in the strict sense of creating gaps between cards. Just random enough to not effect results. Just an opinion though lol.

But why would you think if the initial shuffle isn't adequate that even includes a wash that any later shuffle would be any more adequate? It's just that then you can't tell the same clumping is going on is what I would think. Does the second shuffle differ from the first one maybe? Maybe they do shuffle longer on the initial shuffle with 8 new decks?

It's because I believe that card-clumping exists from one shoe to the next that I can see how "shuffle-tracking" has possibilities. Can't do it but I can see it lol.