full time blackjack

[blackriver]

I have a large bankroll and no obligations so I plan to play (black chip) blackjack full time next year. Im more than willing to travel everywhere in the US and would welcome suggestions abroad. How should I go about this? how much do casinos share blacklists? how many casinos with good blackjack games?

 

[moo321]

First of all, I wouldn't expect to play black chips everywhere. You can only get black chip action down at a few places. You'll mostly want to play greens, and even red at some places.

When you have a large bankroll, it's more about what you can get away with. You should have stop-wins and possibly stop losses, probably around $3k at smaller casinos.

In all honesty, I think your best bet is just back-counting shoes in Vegas and AC. Pretty good EV, and you're anonymous if you get busted. Play for maybe an hour at each place, and then move on. Be willing to play H17 or bad pen. Just don't burn out a game.

 

[blackriver]

im young enuf that theyll usually card me, etc. i dont think i can do anon. i also dont want to play red chip at all

 

[pit15]

im young enuf that theyll usually card me, etc. i dont think i can do anon. i also dont want to play red chip at all

I play at stores where I been backed off. I show ID, then refuse a rating. ID check != putting your name in for a rating

If you don't want to play red chip at all then don't. You'll find out fast enough where your action is too much for them to tolerate

 

[blackriver]

I play at stores where I been backed off. I show ID, then refuse a rating. ID check != putting your name in for a rating

That's what I'm afraid of

If you don't want to play red chip at all then don't. You'll find out fast enough where your action is too much for them to tolerate

Id rather not do lots of travelling just to find out theres no game to play.if I always get an avg of 10hrs first that'd b ok I guess

 

[creeping panther]

Black

I have a large bankroll and no obligations so I plan to play (black chip) blackjack full time next year. Im more than willing to travel everywhere in the US and would welcome suggestions abroad. How should I go about this? how much do casinos share blacklists? how many casinos with good blackjack games?

This is really very silly, if you want to do it, than get off your butt and hit the casinos, travel around the U.S., so many great HL games. If you read the many posts on this site you will already have the answer to your questions.

Actually if you have to ask these questions, as you have, you are either not ready, or not really serious.

If you are serious and a trusting person, and since you are not really ready on your own,, team up with the likes of Moo, and Dye Paint Ball, and travel with them on their team, if they would allow you too, and pay them a fee for showing you the ropes.

CP

 

[moo321]

i also dont want to play red chip at all

I mean, you can do whatever you want. But if you're unwilling to play red chips, either don't leave the Vegas Strip and AC, or expect to get backed off, put in Griffin, and flyered quickly.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, I'm just letting you know how it is. You simply can't bet optimally with a large bankroll at every casino.

I ran into a guy recently who had a huge bankroll ($100k+) who was playing low green chips at a good game, because that's what the casino would tolerate. He probably had an EV a little north of $75 an hour, and was content with what the game would bear. Theoretically, his bankroll should have been yielding $400 or more an hour, but that just isn't feasible everywhere.

 

[Billy C1]

Phony?

I'm not buying the story. Another youngster with a huge bankroll that won't stoop as low as red chips---------won't get any advice from me.

BillyC1

 

[paddywhack]

I'm not buying the story. Another youngster with a huge bankroll that won't stoop as low as red chips---------won't get any advice from me.

BillyC1

Yeah they seem to be coming out of the woodwork. What did they get, early Christmas presents from Santa???

 

[pit15]

I'm not buying the story. Another youngster with a huge bankroll that won't stoop as low as red chips---------won't get any advice from me.

BillyC1

I started recently too and I'm fairly young. I would not play red chips either. Not because I wouldn't "stoop" to that level, but because I would make more money without the variance by delivering pizzas.

To me, a red chipper is one of the following:

- A newbie. If you're just starting out then betting big when you're potentially making mistakes would be stupid. This also includes amateurs who don't realize yet what the EV & variance of their play is. Absolutely nothing wrong with starting small, this is what you SHOULD be doing anyway.
- A recreational player
- Someone who's playing a ridiculous advantage at a place that hates any kind of real action. (I would play $10 too if I was getting a 50% edge on it)
- An idiot. If you're seriously trying to make a living by playing blackjack for < $20 / hour, then you're stupid. Making the same money as a pizza boy, minus things like health benefits, with a standard deviation of like 300 bucks an hour? Not to mention putting up with casino bullshit like idiot ploppies, dealers, and getting backed off and harassed.

If OP's never counted cards before then I would recommend starting as small as he can until he's sure he's a +EV player. After that there's no reason to be spreading $10 - $80. Even on a great game I don't think that would be worthwhile

 

[blackriver]

I'm beginning to think this site isn't for me. I feel like I asked a dream question and everyone just attacks me. I'm either too arrogant cause I have a big bankroll or I'm too ignorant cause I don't brag about the success I've had already. I'm going to start travelling/playing full time beginning next year. I'm probably going to make a lot of mistakes or miss a lot of opportunities that I wouldn't have if people took me seriously.*
I don't know why you'd care, but then why r u on a bj forum? Just to flame people? This site has a bad reputation. I'm glad for what I got out of this

* Look at my replies in the threads "question a bout a potentially profitable game" and "high true count buy pairs" for what helpful posts should look like. )

 

[blackriver]

I'm not buying the story. Another youngster with a huge bankroll that won't stoop as low as red chips---------won't get any advice from me.

BillyC1

From grinding mid/highstakes poker online for 5 years. Still doing good, but thought I could make a lot more money splitting my time between the two. If I can't make a lot with blackjack then its not worth the travel and giving up time I could be playing poker. Although I'm frustrated I understand what tis must look like. I'm not elaborating more to keep private and to be modest

 

[blackriver]

I started recently too and I'm fairly young. I would not play red chips either. Not because I wouldn't "stoop" to that level, but because I would make more money without the variance by delivering pizzas.

To me, a red chipper is one of the following:

- A newbie. If you're just starting out then betting big when you're potentially making mistakes would be stupid. This also includes amateurs who don't realize yet what the EV & variance of their play is. Absolutely nothing wrong with starting small, this is what you SHOULD be doing anyway.
- A recreational player
- Someone who's playing a ridiculous advantage at a place that hates any kind of real action. (I would play $10 too if I was getting a 50% edge on it)
- An idiot. If you're seriously trying to make a living by playing blackjack for < $20 / hour, then you're stupid. Making the same money as a pizza boy, minus things like health benefits, with a standard deviation of like 300 bucks an hour? Not to mention putting up with casino bullshit like idiot ploppies, dealers, and getting backed off and harassed.

If OP's never counted cards before then I would recommend starting as small as he can until he's sure he's a +EV player. After that there's no reason to be spreading $10 - $80. Even on a great game I don't think that would be worthwhile

This is the kind of information I need. Thank you

 

[21gunsalute]

I'm beginning to think this site isn't for me. I feel like I asked a dream question and everyone just attacks me. I'm either too arrogant cause I have a big bankroll or I'm too ignorant cause I don't brag about the success I've had already. I'm going to start travelling/playing full time beginning next year. I'm probably going to make a lot of mistakes or miss a lot of opportunities that I wouldn't have if people took me seriously.*
I don't know why you'd care, but then why r u on a bj forum? Just to flame people? This site has a bad reputation. I'm glad for what I got out of this

* Look at my replies in the threads "question a bout a potentially profitable game" and "high true count buy pairs" for what helpful posts should look like. )

You don't seem to be looking for helpful posts, you seem to be looking for a pat on the back. You've gotten helpful posts and seemed to ignore the advice given. Sometimes the truth hurts. If you're simply looking for positive reinforcement to validate the errors of your ways then you'll probably get just what you deserve. When someone tells you you won't be able to play black chips all the time, take heed! Don't argue and look for a second opinion from someone who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about but agrees with you.

 

[mjbballar23]

From grinding mid/highstakes poker online for 5 years. Still doing good, but thought I could make a lot more money splitting my time between the two. If I can't make a lot with blackjack then its not worth the travel and giving up time I could be playing poker. Although I'm frustrated I understand what tis must look like. I'm not elaborating more to keep private and to be modest

Blackriver

I believe that you have a huge bankroll and I understand why you refuse to play low stakes at BJ because im sure your hourly playing online poker is $200/hour+. My recommendation for you would be to not FORCE yourself to play BJ. Familiarize yourself with the game and how to identify strong opportunities and good games and hit them hard when you find them. It will be very hard to come close to matching your hourly from poker.

Im in a very similar situation as you. 99% of my AP play is online poker now simply because its more convenient, lower variance, and higher hourly. However, when I hear about strong BJ games I will travel to them and hit them hard. Hope this helps.

 

[assume_R]

99% of my AP play is online poker now simply because its more convenient, lower variance, and higher hourly.

What do you estimate your hourly EV and variance of poker are? Just to compare it to blackjack.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Honestly, Creeping Panther made a good point. It's definitely not what you want to hear, but the fact is that if you have to ask these questions, you're absolutely not ready to play blackjack on a full-time basis. If you're a poker grinder, you're at least familiar with the swings, but if you've been grinding 5 years, your edge is likely much larger than it would be with blackjack. Your swings can get really out of control.

Also, you seem confused about the ratings process. For those with larger bankrolls, getting the money isn't the hard part—being able to continue to get the money is. If you don't understand how ratings, back-offs, and barrings work, you will not survive.

I understand the whole red-chip thing, and to be honest, I agree with you. I wouldn't pay professionally unless I was making at least the amount of hourly expectation that I get from my other work. I work for myself, so I get to decide what I do and don't do depending on how much my time is worth. On the other hand, I've put in my dues with plenty of hours of red-chipping when I started out. This was not to make money; rather, it was to develop my skills so that I could eventually move up.

My best recommendation would be to learn everything you can about the realities of full-time play before you start. Then make sure you can actually play before deciding to move up in stakes and play full-time.

However, since I get the feeling that you're probably going to ignore most advice that isn't telling you what you want to hear, maybe these tips will be helpful:

- Be prepared to lose a large portion or all of your bankroll
- Play in Vegas with a $25 min unit and spread like crazy
- Keep your sessions under an hour
- Play unrated—I think you misunderstood pit15 when he said that showing ID != being rated. The "!=" means "does not equal." If you get ID'd, it might be because you have to prove that you're of legal gambling age. This doesn't necessarily mean that your name is being associated with you current gambling, and certainly not your gambling history, like your rating would be.
- Learn how backoffs work—what causes them, how to see them coming, how to avoid them next time. If you're full-time, you need to be an expert on this because it's your job security.

 

[mjbballar23]

What do you estimate your hourly EV and variance of poker are? Just to compare it to blackjack.

I dont have my exact figures but my last 135k hands my hourly win rate is around $85 (including rakeback). I usually play 1500 hands session at a time (1.75 hours or so). Almost all of my sessions are between $-600- $+800. I dont have my exact variance figures on me but that is a close estimate. However, Ive been studying poker pretty seriously for about 2 years so this is definitely not typical for every poker player.

 

[kewljason]

- An idiot. If you're seriously trying to make a living by playing blackjack for < $20 / hour, then you're stupid. Making the same money as a pizza boy, minus things like health benefits, with a standard deviation of like 300 bucks an hour? Not to mention putting up with casino bullshit like idiot ploppies, dealers, and getting backed off and harassed.

If OP's never counted cards before then I would recommend starting as small as he can until he's sure he's a +EV player. After that there's no reason to be spreading $10 - $80.

Not sure where you live that the pizza delivery boys make $20/hour. That would be 40 grand a year. Yeah maybe 1 hour per night if they make 4 deliveries and have a couple extra nice tips they might clear $20, but certainly not on average.

There is a reason, why someone would spread $10-$80 and that would be bankroll limitations. While a spread like this and making $20 per hour doesn't appeal to you (and me either at this point), it could be a step up for someone in a different situaion.

Only a few years ago, I was playing that level and even spreading less due to bankroll limitations, and yes I was making far less than $20 an hour at the beginning, but it was a stepping stone to a higher level of play. I don't think it made me or anyone else at that level an "idiot". :sad: There is no shame in beginning modestly and working and growing your way to a higher level. Now if one's efforts to make a living find him remaining at that level of play for any length of time, I would agree that he may need to re-evaluate his game plan.

 

[assume_R]

I dont have my exact figures but my last 135k hands my hourly win rate is around $85 (including rakeback). I usually play 1500 hands session at a time (1.75 hours or so). Almost all of my sessions are between $-600- $+800. I dont have my exact variance figures on me but that is a close estimate. However, Ive been studying poker pretty seriously for about 2 years so this is definitely not typical for every poker player.

Okay, wow, so according to your figures each session has maybe 2 standard deviations of +/- $700, or 1 standard deviation of $350 per 1.75 hours, or $200 per hour of standard deviation. That is significantly better than blackjack. I've always wondered if I should pick up and learn poker.