help with BJ machines?

[newyorkbear]

I found this game in a few bars in Vegas this week,including some casino bars.
Features a new deck every hand,double down only on 10/11,no surrender,no insurance,no resplits.
but BJ pays 2-1,even on split aces. You can take multipe hits on split aces.Dealer hits soft 17,player automatic winner on six card hand.
If this was a table game,it would have a great EV,but are BJ machines "rigged" to pay a certain percentage,as do slots,or is it just a combo of random cards and how the player plays that determines the overall value.
These games are almost always part of a multi-game machine,so does each game have a seperate payout or so?
Playing a grind,I had six sessions where I won between $15 and $40, and one that I lost $60.You can play for as low as .25 cents a hand or as much a $50 a pop,more even as some have a let it ride feature.
Can anyone refer me to any articles or discussions on these machines.

 

[Mikeaber]

Diversion

NYbear,

I've played these machines as a diversion. Not much to worry about in most casinos though I would be hesitant to endorse them in Oklahoma (all machines are tied to some Bingo game conducted on a network for wins on machines!) You certainly can do nothing but grind away at them...no advantage play that I'm aware of, but you shouldn't have to worry too much about them being "rigged." Sort of like playing a CSM table as far as the fall of the cards.

I've seen some incredible runs of both wins and losses on those BJ machines, but at the $.25 level, it's a cheap way to kill time.

 

[zengrifter]

I've never seen them paying 2-1...

... cause if I had I'd be max betting them all day long with a 2% edge. zg

 

[KenSmith]

The vast majority of video blackjack games pay '2 for 1' on blackjack. That's not the same as '2 to 1'. 2 for 1 is the same as 1 to 1, or even money. The same concept is apparent at a game like video poker. Consider a hand of two pair at normal Jacks or Better. It pays 10 coins, right? That's 10 for 5, which is the same as getting even money (5 to 5).

I'm sure if you examine these blackjack games you found, that will be the case. Since they pay even money on blackjack, they're even worse than playing 6:5 single deck.

 

[zengrifter]

The vast majority of video blackjack games pay '2 for 1' on blackjack. That's not the same as '2 to 1'.

:laugh: OOPS! duuh. zg

 

[newyorkbear]

Don't think thats the case.

If I bet $1 and win,get my $1 back and $1 profit,thats even money,no?
If I bet $1,and win,if it paid 1 for 1,I'd simply be getting my money back,and only BJs(at 2-4-1) would be profitable hands,no? A push returned my bet,not a win..
In this game,if I had $60 in my "account",bet $1 and won,the register now read $61.Same bet with BJ would read $62.
I'm almost certain of the above.One hand where I split Aces on a $3 bet,got BJ on one hand and lost the other,resulted in a $9 dollar win.Is that 2-1 or 2-4-1?
Game was at the Imperial Palace,downstairs in the bar at the base of the escalators that lead to the 3rd floor.
Game at the Sports Bar was not the same,that one paid 3-2.
I know that a winning hand did not simply return your money,but added a unit bet to the registar.
Plus,the comps for my play(less than 3 hours total) were 216 points. Good for 20something in food,almost 12 dollars in cash and a special fleece for getting 200 points in a day.With the majority of my bets being $1 or less.

I'm thinking what max bets on triple point days could bring.

 

[Mikeaber]

If I bet $1 and win,get my $1 back and $1 profit,thats even money,no?
If I bet $1,and win,if it paid 1 for 1,I'd simply be getting my money back,and only BJs(at 2-4-1) would be profitable hands,no? A push returned my bet,not a win..
In this game,if I had $60 in my "account",bet $1 and won,the register now read $61.Same bet with BJ would read $62.
I'm almost certain of the above.One hand where I split Aces on a $3 bet,got BJ on one hand and lost the other,resulted in a $9 dollar win.Is that 2-1 or 2-4-1?
Game was at the Imperial Palace,downstairs in the bar at the base of the escalators that lead to the 3rd floor.
Game at the Sports Bar was not the same,that one paid 3-2.
I know that a winning hand did not simply return your money,but added a unit bet to the registar.
Plus,the comps for my play(less than 3 hours total) were 216 points. Good for 20something in food,almost 12 dollars in cash and a special fleece for getting 200 points in a day.With the majority of my bets being $1 or less.

I'm thinking what max bets on triple point days could bring.

I don't think they have these machines in the casino I occasionally visit in Oklahoma, but I seem to remember that when I placed a bet, my credit balance went down by one. If I won, it went up by two. I think that is what it did on Blackjacks as well as any other winning hand but lordy, I could be mistaken NYBear. I also remember you could not double on soft hands...only on 10 and 11.

 

[KenSmith]

If I bet $1 and win,get my $1 back and $1 profit,thats even money,no?
If I bet $1,and win,if it paid 1 for 1,I'd simply be getting my money back,and only BJs(at 2-4-1) would be profitable hands,no? A push returned my bet,not a win..

Typically, a win and a blackjack on video blackjack games pays the same thing, 2 for 1 == 1:1 == even money.

In this game,if I had $60 in my "account",bet $1 and won,the register now read $61.Same bet with BJ would read $62.

If true, this would be a nice opportunity, depending on the max bet.

I'm almost certain of the above.One hand where I split Aces on a $3 bet,got BJ on one hand and lost the other,resulted in a $9 dollar win.Is that 2-1 or 2-4-1?

So, in addition to blackjacks paying 2 to 1, you also believe that drawing a ten on a split Ace pays 2 to 1? Even at a blackjack table that hand would win even money.

Game was at the Imperial Palace,downstairs in the bar at the base of the escalators that lead to the 3rd floor.
Game at the Sports Bar was not the same,that one paid 3-2.

I'm still skeptical of both these machines. While I've never seen a video blackjack game that pays 2:1, I've also seen very few that pay 3:2.

I know that a winning hand did not simply return your money,but added a unit bet to the registar.

On that, I'm sure you're right. A game where your wins just push would set a new standard in unbeatable!

If anyone is at the IP in the next few days, please check these games, just in case.
However, I'm not expecting much.

 

[newyorkbear]

It is quite possible that both regular wins and BJs pay the same thing. I do know that when you hit a BJ,even after splitting aces,it says Winner,Blackjack pays 2:1.
I do know that everyone on several forums is saying the same thing you are,Ken,so until someone examines the machines,I am quite willing to accept that I was conned into thinking they paid 2-4-1.It seems that the registar advanced further on BJs than on regular wins,but I guess that wasn't the case.

On this game,as I said above,a ten on a split ace did say Winner,Blackjack pays 2:1. This was what caught my eye in the first place.Of course its easy to call split ace/ten a Bj when a BJ pays the same as any other win.

I never played the machines in the Sports Bar. What happened was after playing poker for awhile,I wandered in and asked the bartender if the BJ games at the bar pay 2-1. He said no,they pay 3-2. I went back to the bar downstairs,where I thought I was getting 2 to 1.
I certainly will check them out on my next trip.


This is the great thing about discussion groups like this.
Thanks,again!