hey all

S

scuba

Member
#1
#1
hey guys, im pretty new to this but the more i read the better it all sounds and more excited i get. . .
i started off by realising that i always a had streak of wins when i was about 2/3's of the way through the shoe and a lot of tens were coming out... so i started just looking for tables with not much of the shoe left and looked as though 10's were the thing.. i'd usually be a few hundred up but then he quietly confident and leave a few hundred down.. im sure we've all been there.. anyways i think i use the basic counting system .. the hi-lo?? i seem to have it down pretty pat.. i play at the crown casino in melbourne - australia ... anyways thats about it... if anyone from melbourne still on these forums give us a msg
ill keep reading the forums and pick up on alot of things.. like wonging and all that lingo .. any help or direction would be greatly appreciated :S i get lost in some of the words and get confused
-cheers guys - scuba
 
jetace

jetace

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
So you live in Australia and your name is scuba? I've always wanted to scuba dive in Australia. Ever gone to the Grotto in Saipan? I've heard its one of the best spots in the world.

Anywho, let us know what you are assigning each number (i.e. 2-6 = +1) and we'll let ya know which count you are using. Also, since you're new and many newbies make this mistake, have you mastered basic strategy? Many newbies count before ever learning proper basic and screw themselves from the start.

I'm also curious to know what the rules are at the casino you go to in Melbourne. Do they have decent rules... Double after split, dealer stands on soft 17? How many decks?
 
S

scuba

Member
#3
#3
I don't know about grotto but aus is a great place to dive...
uhm i give 2-6 = +1 7-9 = nuetral and T's - A = -1
rules at crown are i beleive double after split.. 8 decks.. dealer hits on soft 17...double 9-11..and shuffle masters.. i dunno what they are CSM? and deck penetration is about 1-1.5 but dealers arnt too fussed about it just wherever..
i do have bs down pat but.. i don't tend to use it often..only at the beginning of the shoe.. the majority of the time if i think the deck is 10's heavy ill sit on anything from 8 - 20... even tho i know with 8 its a free hit but i figure if the next card is a ten thats what i want the dealer to have yeah? especially if if playing 3-4 hands and need dealer to bust.. is this the standard precedure for card counters if they are on a shoe +4 or so?
 
jetace

jetace

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Sounds like you've been given the worst game possible. CSM's make it impossible to count. 8 decks with H17 and D9-11? That's gotta be over a 1% adv. to the casino. Almost as bad as 6:5 payout on blackjack. There are some people who claim to have a strategy for CSMs, but I steer clear. Counting is useless without Basic Strategy anyway. Are there any other casinos in your area you could go to?
 
S

scuba

Member
#5
#5
maybe im wrong.. it might not be CSM? the cards are automatically shuffled taken out put into a card holder and the dealer just slides one card out with ease.. im not sure if its CSM ASM ? no idea.. uhh no casino's are few and far between... 1 in each state so roughly a 8 hr drive? so i take it my theory is incorrect basic stratergy must be played.. i dunno because in my experiences like.. when im playing my way and i sit of a say.. 7-8 or 14 and the people at the table go URGHH IDIOT WHAT ARE YOU DOING DONT YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY... and then the dealer bust and they all win where as if i played bs we all would lose.. this happens 75%more of the time and the one time i use bs it works every goes SEEE.. anyways just my thoughts anyone else who doesnt use bs all the time? a bit bummed my casino is cruddy what ill do is take a drive down and check out the rules properly but im pretty sure they are it except about the CSM ASM i was just guessing the proper name but yeah they are out of the machine when dealt so no shuffling whilst shoe in play...
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#6
#6
scuba said:
maybe im wrong.. it might not be CSM? the cards are automatically shuffled taken out put into a card holder ...so no shuffling whilst shoe in play...
Click to expand...
What you describe is NOT a CSM - its a non-continuous auto shuffler and IS beatable. Next what we want to know is "penetration" - how deep do they deal the show before re-shuffle. zg
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
scuba said:
uhm i give 2-6 = +1 7-9 = nuetral and T's - A = -1
Click to expand...
That’s called the Hi-Lo system. It’s a great system and a good place to start.

scuba said:
rules at crown are i beleive double after split.. 8 decks.. dealer hits on soft 17...double 9-11..and shuffle masters.. i dunno what they are CSM? and deck penetration is about 1-1.5 but dealers arnt too fussed about it just wherever..
Click to expand...
The rules are pretty terrible but the penetration (how far they deal before shuffling) sounds decent. Even with bad rules a deeply dealt game can be very rewarding. For an 8-deck game you will be leaving whenever the count gets too negative anyway. Hopefully there are a lot of tables at the casino so that you can walk around and only play at positive tables.

scuba said:
i do have bs down pat but.. i don't tend to use it often.
Click to expand...
That is a very big mistake. Even card counters use basic strategy almost all of the time. There are a few exceptions, but unless you know exactly what they are (like standing with 15 vs. 10 at +4) you should not make guesses about them. You should never stand on an 8! :eek:

scuba said:
the majority of the time if i think the deck is 10's heavy ill sit on anything from 8 - 20...is this the standard precedure for card counters if they are on a shoe +4 or so?
Click to expand...
This is a good example of how expensive these mistakes can be. A +4 count is not very high. You shouldn’t even have your max bet out until +5 or higher in most cases. Your style of play is increasing the house edge dramatically. Playing like that can be very costly.

scuba said:
the cards are automatically shuffled taken out put into a card holder and the dealer just slides one card out with ease.
Click to expand...
That is called an Auto-Shuffler (ASM). Don’t worry about them. :) They actually speed up the game so that a good player can win more money. As long as they are cutting off 1-1.5 decks you should be able to make a little (but not much) money from this game if you are aggressive enough.

-Sonny-
 
S

scuba

Member
#8
#8
hey thanks for the feedback..
the penetration is about 1-1.5 - zen
i guess the reason i sit on an 8 ( just for arguments sake could be anything) is i guess i anticipate that , alright the next two cards i beleive will be two tens.. and i see the dealer s card as say a 5? or 4 so i think ahh well he'll bust .. most of the time it pays off.. but only when i beleive the shoe is ten heavy and that is without counting.. intuitiioin?> :rolleyes:
but yeah nothing profesional about it ill start playing bs and see how i go..i dont think im ready to count just yet.. id probly have to use my fingers with all the distractions ..they might catch on :laugh:
 
S

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
scuba said:
hey thanks for the feedback..
the penetration is about 1-1.5 - zen
i guess the reason i sit on an 8 ( just for arguments sake could be anything) is i guess i anticipate that , alright the next two cards i beleive will be two tens.. and i see the dealer s card as say a 5? or 4 so i think ahh well he'll bust .. most of the time it pays off.. but only when i beleive the shoe is ten heavy and that is without counting.. intuitiioin?> :rolleyes:
but yeah nothing profesional about it ill start playing bs and see how i go..i dont think im ready to count just yet.. id probly have to use my fingers with all the distractions ..they might catch on :laugh:
Click to expand...
Never stand on an 11 or lower. It's a blackjack fallacy to think you are going to "steal" the dealer's bust card.
 
S

scuba

Member
#10
#10
ahh right i understand so bs is it.. well that changes my gameplan emmensely.. ill have a few more trips in just to get use to it... make it standard precedure.. i plan on taking a BR?(bankroll? still learning the lingo) of $1500.. ill keep searching the forums for the ?(betspread?) i should use.. i might even get a few mates onboard just for a higher bankroll? would that make a whole lot of difference in the profit keeping in mind that in the end it will be devided up back to the investors , so to speak....??
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
SCUBA, You've been advised to stick to Basic Strategy. Then add counting to it to get the benefit of knowing when to ramp or raise your bets. As for as deviations to Basic Strategy, I'd suggest that you study first WHEN to take and refuse the Insurance/Even Money side bet. You'll gain more from that one advantage in deviation than from all the others. I would follow that with the count at which you stand on hard 16 followed by standing on hard 15 followed by standing on hard 12. There are many other deviations.....I think I read that ZG has it down so pat that he has used as many as 150 deviations based on count for virtually every possible combination of cards a player can have against the dealer. And 150 is not the maximum number of indices that have been used! However, those three or four deviations I mentioned will give you a good start IF you play the rest of the time with Basic Strategy WITHOUT deviating.
 
S

scuba

Member
#12
#12
hey guys just an update on how im going. . . thanks for all the advice i used it at the casino this morning about 4am.. i walked in with $80 and walked out with $300 i was there no longer than 30minutes... maybe even a shorter period.. i was also watching all the other players to see if they were counting and i think they were.. but their spreads were huge.. 15 min then when i got a decent count everyone on the table up it to 150-200 and a smirk the PB was watching but didnt seem to be like studying the play.. like... he was just standing there but only at our table ... is this a stratergy the PB's use to try to pick out a cc?
or was he just a numpty cause it was so obvious.. everyone wouldve been up 100's
 
S

scuba

Member
#14
#14
yeah matt but options in australia are some what limited there is only 1 casino in each state so the next closest one is about an 8-10 hr drive so gotta make the most of what we got... i dont find them that bad.. the pene is good but i dunno.. im no expert.. i plan on going back there tonight with the $300 i won last night so ill play the same gameplay i did last night and give you's the results :)
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#15
#15
scuba said:
yeah matt but options in australia are some what limited there is only 1 casino in each state so the next closest one is about an 8-10 hr drive so gotta make the most of what we got... i dont find them that bad.. the pene is good but i dunno.. im no expert.. i plan on going back there tonight with the $300 i won last night so ill play the same gameplay i did last night and give you's the results :)
Click to expand...
If the pene really is 75%+ its playable. Do they allow mid-entry? zg
 
S

scuba

Member
#16
#16
yeah they do zen ... its all free range pretty i reckon95% of ppl who play just come and go as quickly from what i've seen .. might be differnt at the $100min table but $10-$50 min is no prob.. i guess that would be great for wonging? in and out at low and high counts? but about my question where the PB was just standing constantly there not really looking as tho he was onto cc's.. would that be a strategy by the casino's or just a stupid PB.. cause the bets from everyone on my table were incredible .. there were 5 of us and when the count was decent we all went from 15 - 150+ and the PB was at our table but didnt seem concerned about it. . . this happened a few times
 
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