hi/lo question

[noshoes]

I am new to blackjack. Memorized basic strategy, and learned hi/lo. Recently went to Vegas and acheived my goal of paying for the trip (and a little extra) just on winnings. I was very pleased cause my only real goal was to learn that I could make some money, didn't know it could be that easy, though I think most would say I was just "lucky."
My question is in regards to the hi/lo count and neutrals (7,8,9). I read a little bit about variance and if I understand right, aren't the neutral cards responsible for a lot of that variance in the count? If I am correct, would it be possible to develop a hi/lo count that kept a side count of neutrals and how it relates to really important hands (15, 16, 10, 11)? Please feel free to completely flame the new guy if I am trying to re-invent the wheel or if my assumptions are WAY off base.

 

[KenSmith]

Certainly using information about the neutral cards could help in playing some hands. However, don't be fooled into thinking you can noticeably reduce variance with these plays. Even if you were able to play every hand computer-perfect using the exact deck composition, the overall variance of the game would not be substantially reduced. Intelligent play helps, but luck is always a bigger factor on any individual hand.

That's why it is important to understand bankroll and risk of ruin considerations. No matter how well you play, losing streaks of almost the same magnitude as your average uninformed player are inevitable.

 

[noshoes]

I respect your info but I believe that the neutrals do have a stronger impact in certain situations with regards to variance. Is there someplace online that has the playing variations for hi/lo? I would like to spend some time researching this. Not that I am out right disagreeing with you, I just like proving these things for myself. Thank you for your responce, by the way.

 

[nc-tom]

I respect your info but I believe that the neutrals do have a stronger impact in certain situations with regards to variance. Is there someplace online that has the playing variations for hi/lo? I would like to spend some time researching this. Not that I am out right disagreeing with you, I just like proving these things for myself. Thank you for your responce, by the way.

While you might have fun researching this since your new to the game working at perfecting your play and memorizing your index numbers might be time better spent. Upgrading your skill level and finding good games might do more to help your edge than learning the impact of neutrals on the hi/lo. If you want to get that involved in numbers you might read Theory of Blackjack by Peter Griffin.

 

[KenSmith]

nc-tom is right. Griffin's Theory of Blackjack has tables that show the effect of removal for every card value for every decision.

At $12.95, it's a gold mine of information if you're interested in this sort of thing.

 

[noshoes]

agreed with both of you, also thanks for the book recomendation. Maybe I am just a numbers junkie. I think ultimately we are all in it for the same thing, to identify the situation and capitalize on it. I am just trying to become adept at recognizing the situation in a timely manner. I could just be driving myself nuts but I am having a good time.

 

[zengrifter]

I am new to blackjack. Memorized basic strategy, and learned hi/lo. Recently went to Vegas and acheived my goal of paying for the trip (and a little extra) just on winnings. I was very pleased cause my only real goal was to learn that I could make some money, didn't know it could be that easy, though I think most would say I was just "lucky."
My question is in regards to the hi/lo count and neutrals (7,8,9). I read a little bit about variance and if I understand right, aren't the neutral cards responsible for a lot of that variance in the count? If I am correct, would it be possible to develop a hi/lo count that kept a side count of neutrals and how it relates to really important hands (15, 16, 10, 11)? Please feel free to completely flame the new guy if I am trying to re-invent the wheel or if my assumptions are WAY off base.

What you are referring to is "multi-parameter adjustments" for "bivaluate" cards. This approach is difficult and typically used in 1D games, maybe 2D,certainly not for 4+ decks. The single most important card for this is the 7. You may also count the 7s/8s as a block. I used to do 7s with HO2 but I decided it wasn't worth the effort with the eroded game conditions.

Griffin's TOBJ won't give you the actual numbers for application. zg

Start here - http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gambling.blackjack.moderated/browse_thread/thread/523849616d99bcd2/a400bce01bf3e0f0?lnk=st&q=multiparameter+gordon&rnum=1#a400bce01bf3e0f0

Then here - http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gambling.blackjack/browse_thread/thread/c019549d8c2ac0fd/f380b6dd7f0f7fe8?lnk=st&q=multiparameter+gordon&rnum=3#f380b6dd7f0f7fe8

Then here - http://groups.google.com/groups?ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=multiparameter+blackjack&qt_s=Search

 

[noshoes]

Thanks for the links. What do you mean by "eroded game conditions." Is that a remark on the rule sets of casinos or just the mental fatigue.

 

[zengrifter]

Thanks for the links. What do you mean by "eroded game conditions." Is that a remark on the rule sets of casinos or just the mental fatigue.

It means that today's BJ conditions (ie, rules and penetration) are not as good as they used to be. zg