How do you deal with sticky-finger dealers?

[Persnickety1]

Once in a while the dealer picks up a busted hand before I get the chance to see those cards.

As long as that doesn't happen very often, I continue counting the rest of the hands as nothing happened. I write-off those uncounted cards, and accept the idea that the penetration just got a little worse.

Is that a bad idea? I know some people fudge the count for the worse when they are unsure, just to be safe. Others just give up and either flat bet the remainder of the shoe or wong out altogether.

What would you do if you somehow got distracted and this happened to you?

 

[zengrifter]

Once in a while the dealer picks up a busted hand before I get the chance to see those cards.

As long as that doesn't happen very often, I continue counting the rest of the hands as nothing happened. I write-off those uncounted cards, and accept the idea that the penetration just got a little worse.

Is that a bad idea? I know some people fudge the count for the worse when they are unsure, just to be safe. Others just give up and either flat bet the remainder of the shoe or wong out altogether.

What would you do if you somehow got distracted and this happened to you?

Any cards that you miss are imply treated as unseen - as though they were still behind the cut-card. zg

 

[Mimosine]

Once in a while the dealer picks up a busted hand before I get the chance to see those cards.

As long as that doesn't happen very often, I continue counting the rest of the hands as nothing happened. I write-off those uncounted cards, and accept the idea that the penetration just got a little worse.

Is that a bad idea? I know some people fudge the count for the worse when they are unsure, just to be safe. Others just give up and either flat bet the remainder of the shoe or wong out altogether.

What would you do if you somehow got distracted and this happened to you?

follow zg's advice, unless you can use your mental powers to distill the approximate value of the cards that would make up a busted hand. once in a while i miss a card or two, but based on the cards that were in that hand before i have a good inkling whether or not it was a T.

 

[ihate17]

Hand dependent method

Of course you know that if the guy had 12 and busted on a 1 card hit, a ten came out.

On other busts if you missed it, it is very reasonable and will not bring suspicion to your play if you ask in certain situations. If you also have a stiff that must be hit, if you have a possible double down hand, or a possible split hand. Many people, even in a shoe game, are concerned with which cards just hit the felt. If a bunch of 4's and 5's came out, a guy with 16 who would generally hit but in this situation will be more likely to stay. So being that guy when making a decision is not that unusual, so neither will be asking the dealer about the earlier player's bust card.

Now if you are sitting with a pat hand then I would not ask because that means you do not want this information to help you decide how to play this hand. The result being that someone working for the casino just might start asking himself, "why did he want to know that certain bust card.

ihate17

 

[sabre]

Are you talking about a face-up or face-down game?

In a face up game, the most common method of counting is to count each starting hand as the player receives his 2nd card, then count the dealer's up-card, then count each player hit as it is dealt, finally count the dealer's hole card and any hits taken by the dealer.

If you are doing this, and are missing some player hit cards due to them busting, then you are going to have problems. The average point value of player hits leading to busts is < 0. Treating them as unseen cards is going to lead to overestimating the count.

This effect may not exist in a face-down game. I don't know the average point value of a busted hand. But I do know that the average point value of a busted hand when you ignore the first 2 cards (because you've already counted them) is < 0.

 

[Mimosine]

On other busts if you missed it, it is very reasonable and will not bring suspicion to your play if you ask in certain situations. If you also have a stiff that must be hit, if you have a possible double down hand, or a possible split hand. Many people, even in a shoe game, are concerned with which cards just hit the felt. If a bunch of 4's and 5's came out, a guy with 16 who would generally hit but in this situation will be more likely to stay. So being that guy when making a decision is not that unusual, so neither will be asking the dealer about the earlier player's bust card.
ihate17

i've seen quite a few times one player ask another player what card busted them. maybe they were staring off at "the game" and clearly neither person was counting, some people are more curious than others, why not just ask the person what busted them? feint interest that the result might affect how you play your hand. might be a little less suspicious than asking the dealer - unless the dealer is clueless. either way this can be done in multiple ways. in pitch games people often ask to see my hand, i gladly show them mine and then in the future use this interaction to my advantage when i ask to see theirs, esp around TC =+3 and insurance decisions, where even ploppies often ask to see other hands before taking insurance. you'd be surprised how many ploppies know at least to count the tens on the table before taking insurance.

 

[EasyRhino]

I generally compare hands with my neighbors every hand when playing a pitch game. I just look like a busybody.