jerry's nugget promo and cheating

[kewljason]

A couple times a month a friend and I go couponing and promo hunting. Lot's of red chip matchplays and various low limit promo's. below my usual level of play, but the coupons make it fairly worthwhile, and it's a break from my regular routine, and sort of fun.

Jrry's Nugget, just north of downtown (not a great area) has a promo on Monday's and Wednesdays in august. Buy $20 chips for $10 and a $5 sportsbook wager match play coupon, which to my way of thinking is more than a match play. You wager $5 on a sporting event and they hand you a ticket as if you wagered $10. So a winning $5 ticket returns $20 (less vig) which is $15 profit on $5 wager or triple the amount won. A true Mp would be double the amount won.

Anyway, the only table game open was CSM $3 blackjack. (Roulette wasn't even open) So we played a total of 8 hands, just long enough to turn my promo chips into real chips and play a matchplay coupon. I couldn't help but notice something unusual and watched a while after to confirm it. The table was pretty crowded, so there were a good number of cards each round. After a round where many small or nuetral cards came out they were immediately fed back into the CSM, where as after a round with more high cards, they were placed in the discard rack, for several hands and then fed back into CSM 3-4 hands later. sneaky bastards!

 

[johndoe]

Wow. Someone should definitely call gaming on that one.

 

[zengrifter]

In Griffin's TOB he points out that 5 (perfect) riffles, no strip, on a fresh deck will produce a 20% edge against the BS player. In 2000 I noticed that Binion's was replacing single decks every 30-min like clockwork and the dealers were instructed to give them 5 riffles, no strips, and go. After the first fresh deck they would return to normal shuffling. zg

 

[NightStalker]

I don't think they are counting

A couple times a month a friend and I go couponing and promo hunting. Lot's of red chip matchplays and various low limit promo's. below my usual level of play, but the coupons make it fairly worthwhile, and it's a break from my regular routine, and sort of fun.

Jrry's Nugget, just north of downtown (not a great area) has a promo on Monday's and Wednesdays in august. Buy $20 chips for $10 and a $5 sportsbook wager match play coupon, which to my way of thinking is more than a match play. You wager $5 on a sporting event and they hand you a ticket as if you wagered $10. So a winning $5 ticket returns $20 (less vig) which is $15 profit on $5 wager or triple the amount won. A true Mp would be double the amount won.

Anyway, the only table game open was CSM $3 blackjack. (Roulette wasn't even open) So we played a total of 8 hands, just long enough to turn my promo chips into real chips and play a matchplay coupon. I couldn't help but notice something unusual and watched a while after to confirm it. The table was pretty crowded, so there were a good number of cards each round. After a round where many small or nuetral cards came out they were immediately fed back into the CSM, where as after a round with more high cards, they were placed in the discard rack, for several hands and then fed back into CSM 3-4 hands later. sneaky bastards!

Dealers are meant to shuffle after specific number of cards are dealt..
If you see small cards, total number of cards dealt are more per round..
If you see high cards,total number of cards dealt are more per round => More number of rounds before completing x-number of cards..

 

[Friendo]

... just north of downtown (not a great area) ...

Adding to the list.

Places which suck in Vegas:

• The Strip
• Downtown
• North of downtown

 

[tthree]

Dealers are meant to shuffle after specific number of cards are dealt..
If you see small cards, total number of cards dealt are more per round..
If you see high cards,total number of cards dealt are more per round => More number of rounds before completing x-number of cards..

Typo. You mean high cards => less cards per round.

 

[shadroch]

Adding to the list.

Places which suck in Vegas:

• The Strip
• Downtown
• North of downtown

Yep. Stay away. Stay far away.

 

[Ferretnparrot]

SO when is it going to be had where a case rules cheating a player out of EV is the same as outrite cheating a player out of his entire bet?

having a hundred dollar bet and then capping it with 1 dollar is still capping a bet, redistibution of cards into a shuffle machine based on their composition is still dealing a dishonest deck, even if its not as effctive as dealing a dishonest deck.

 

[Jacob]

card clumping

In Griffin's TOB he points out that 5 (perfect) riffles, no strip, on a fresh deck will produce a 20% edge against the BS player. In 2000 I noticed that Binion's was replacing single decks every 30-min like clockwork and the dealers were instructed to give them 5 riffles, no strips, and go. After the first fresh deck they would return to normal shuffling. zg

Live and learn. I read about Jerry Patterson's card-clumping. Now I read about Griffin's card-clumping here. If there is such animal as Griffin's card-clumping, I reckon I lost $6,000 to an Indian Casino because of that shenanigan.

 

[Caesar]

Vegas hits a new low

The former gambling center of the world goes from offering lousy games to outright cheating. Fleecing customers doesn't work in the long run.

 

[FrankieT]

Dealer card steering

Would the method of shuffling 5 perfect riffles screw over a card counter or just a BS player?

If not, can a deck be shuffled in a certain way to seriously screw over a counter? By seriously screw over I mean giving the counter a high count but lowering - maybe even negating - the chance of his high cards hitting?

The only way to do this, i'd think, would be to try to shuffle low cards and high cards at polar opposites of the deck.

If the dealer can get high cards/low cards on polar opposites of the deck consistently on a 1d or 2d, the CCer would be screwed. If the CCer ends up with the side with high cards on it, he'll be min betting his blackjacks and 20's - if it's the other way around the player will be big betting without a chance to his big cards.

obviously since a player gets to cut, it would be hard to do this. But of course, a good deal of players cut the deck in a predictable fashion every time (usually down the middle), so the dealer could keep it in mind how a certain player repeatedly cuts, and always give the cut card to him. Also the dealer has some discretion in placement of the cutoff point.

I think this would be highly unlikely, but if a dealer got good at card steering/and figuring out which player obligingly cuts the same way each time, he could cause a disadvantage on the CCer's big bets. It would be hard to prove, as there would be no evidence. I'm not saying this is likely to happen, but since players can card steer, it stands to reason that a dealer could do it as well.