JohnCrover
Banned
It wasn't pretty. When you think "How can things get any worse" and they keep getting worse.
Losing 14.5% of my bankroll in 6 hours.
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Counting_Is_Fun
Well-Known Member
How can we convince you to finally really leave and start posting your nonsense at a different forum?
JohnCrover
Banned
You guys are nuts
Nightshifter
Well-Known Member
John... they have you clocked man. Negative variance only goes so far. Parallel your play using the same exact hand shuffle and card changing routine (new decks every 4 hours whatever...). Now over time, you tell me, have you ever had such a bad losing streak at home as in the casino? Now I'm not talking about counting errors.... I'm talking about getting a run of poor 2 card totals that are way off the charts, or the dealer making some incredible hands that are again way out of statistical means. We've talked about this before as to why this happens. I know I've played countless hours duplicating a game at home (and I was a dealer) and never ever experienced losing sessions to that of a casino! Then again, I can create the exact scenario if I'm hand shuffling a certain way to encourage groups of cards... and the manner in which I pick them up (left to right or right to left to group the highs with highs or lows with lows). This would perpetuate chunks of cards that eventually would wipe you out using standard card counting techniques. I know that a few of us are ridiculed for this notion on legalized cheating via ASMs or hand shuffling techniques, but believe me... I was told to do it myself while I dealt in the casino to cool off the table. Keeping aces chunked together is a good one as well... yes this can all occur naturally over time, but it's the frequency of it happening that's off the charts in which the casino exploits to subvert the AP! This doesn't happen all the time and at every table, but intermittently.
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Nightshifter
Well-Known Member
Don't feel bad John.. My first time out today.... waiting for the casinos here in Southern California to open... Lost 20% of my bankroll in ~2 hours of double deck play with 75% penetration... terrible! I use HiOpt II with ace side count ... the cards were going extreme negative or positive ( + or - 15 to 17 half way through the deck) from round to round... signs of clumping and couldn't beat it playing correctly... sucks big time!JohnCrover said:
henrywilson
New Member
Not very good news, I'm sorry. The most important thing is not to give up and go forward to your goal. I've been making a living from poker and slot machines for 8 years and have gained a lot of experience during this time. I advise you to use platforms that give you bonuses, thanks to which you won't go into such a big minus. I also advise you to play big o poker, if you understand how to win these games, then you can win in other slot machines. I wish you good luck in your endeavors and remember-don't give up!
Nightshifter
Well-Known Member
Well... it can't hurt you to move on (unless you want to argue leaving a high +TC...)... but then again if a row of 10-valued cards are coming, most likely it'll be an 'all twenties push' with the house and that's the same as just taking them out of the deck... but legallyPlayallin said:
Yes... the cards will play like this once in a while... buuuuttt... if it keeps happening over and over again (either extreme - or +) then I would leave that table or better yet.. casino! LOL! The unwary AP will bet into a high +TC and the goods just never show... unless you spread to 3 hands right before the cut card but uhhh... now you're asking for it... 86'd! LOL
KewlJ
Well-Known Member
We have ASM / card clumping discussions going in numerous threads now? Really is that necessary?
My own view as I have expressed and is in conflict to what many here believe is that ASM cheating is possible. For me, it is not a question because I took possession of a machine and saw the possibility for myself. The capability is there. The technology is there.
With all the amazing things that can be done today technology-wise, like Alexa running all my home electronics and so on and so forth, why would anyone think something as simple as sorting the cards into specific sequences not possible? It is very possible, I can assure you.
Now where I differ with nightshifter and BJgenious is just how wide spread this action is. I mean it is illegal, or would be found to be illegal if such a case were brought. I have definitively found 2 cases were this took place, and they were both fairly small, independent, single casinos, not part of any chain. And probably the decision didn't come from the top. I don't think it is widespread. I don't think any chain casinos would get involved with this and I don't think any big independents would. The likely scenario is a smaller independent casino (as both my cases were), with some middle management guy making a bad (illegal) decision, probably to insure good numbers on his shift or tables.
Anyway, I know most people don't agree with my findings, so I don't want to argue about it. Instead, I just want to say, experienced players should rely on their experience and gut feelings. If something feels wrong to you, don't play that game / casino until you figure out what is wrong, if anything. And if you can't satisfy yourself, stay away from that game/location permanently. There are too many fish in the sea.
This is unrelated to the ASM sorting discussion, but earlier this year, I was convinced a specific casino was cheating me, due to extraordinary bad results. It was a hand shuffle, so ASM didn't play into it. The results which were obviously a small sample size were just atrocious. Part of the problem was that I had raised my stakes at just the wrong time, so these results seemed even worse. So I wanted to investigate for myself, so I went out of my way to be present when new tables were opened and new cards introduced. There was a procedure that I was a little uncomfortable with in that the floor person, takes the cards out of view after they have been spread for all to see. He takes the cards out of view, walking around the pit, sometimes with his back to the table while he flips through the 2 decks checking the cards. He should do this before the cards are spread on the table. It makes no sense to take the cards out of view after they have been spread. That is just a bad procedure.
So anyway, I still visited this casinos because I was winning at their shoe games, and occasionally, still played the double deck, where the results were so extraordinarily bad. A couple winning sessions here and there and the results didn't look quite so extraordinary. Still bad, significantly in the red for that DD game.
At the current time, I am willing to say that my initial reaction of cheating was wrong and chalk it up to an extraordinary bad run, just at the wrong time, when I increased stakes, which made it look and feel even worse to me. But despite that, nothing wrong with being very vigilant and using your experience and gut feelings. If you are uncomfortable with a game / casino / dealer for any reason, find one that you are more comfortable with.
My own view as I have expressed and is in conflict to what many here believe is that ASM cheating is possible. For me, it is not a question because I took possession of a machine and saw the possibility for myself. The capability is there. The technology is there.
With all the amazing things that can be done today technology-wise, like Alexa running all my home electronics and so on and so forth, why would anyone think something as simple as sorting the cards into specific sequences not possible? It is very possible, I can assure you.
Now where I differ with nightshifter and BJgenious is just how wide spread this action is. I mean it is illegal, or would be found to be illegal if such a case were brought. I have definitively found 2 cases were this took place, and they were both fairly small, independent, single casinos, not part of any chain. And probably the decision didn't come from the top. I don't think it is widespread. I don't think any chain casinos would get involved with this and I don't think any big independents would. The likely scenario is a smaller independent casino (as both my cases were), with some middle management guy making a bad (illegal) decision, probably to insure good numbers on his shift or tables.
Anyway, I know most people don't agree with my findings, so I don't want to argue about it. Instead, I just want to say, experienced players should rely on their experience and gut feelings. If something feels wrong to you, don't play that game / casino until you figure out what is wrong, if anything. And if you can't satisfy yourself, stay away from that game/location permanently. There are too many fish in the sea.
This is unrelated to the ASM sorting discussion, but earlier this year, I was convinced a specific casino was cheating me, due to extraordinary bad results. It was a hand shuffle, so ASM didn't play into it. The results which were obviously a small sample size were just atrocious. Part of the problem was that I had raised my stakes at just the wrong time, so these results seemed even worse. So I wanted to investigate for myself, so I went out of my way to be present when new tables were opened and new cards introduced. There was a procedure that I was a little uncomfortable with in that the floor person, takes the cards out of view after they have been spread for all to see. He takes the cards out of view, walking around the pit, sometimes with his back to the table while he flips through the 2 decks checking the cards. He should do this before the cards are spread on the table. It makes no sense to take the cards out of view after they have been spread. That is just a bad procedure.
So anyway, I still visited this casinos because I was winning at their shoe games, and occasionally, still played the double deck, where the results were so extraordinarily bad. A couple winning sessions here and there and the results didn't look quite so extraordinary. Still bad, significantly in the red for that DD game.
At the current time, I am willing to say that my initial reaction of cheating was wrong and chalk it up to an extraordinary bad run, just at the wrong time, when I increased stakes, which made it look and feel even worse to me. But despite that, nothing wrong with being very vigilant and using your experience and gut feelings. If you are uncomfortable with a game / casino / dealer for any reason, find one that you are more comfortable with.
The G Man
Well-Known Member
Some times, when I do practice (cause I still do), I get so many bad results on my kitchen table as I myself deal the cards and this simply do to high variance, I could tell my wife "Honey, if I were not the one dealing the cards, I would think I'm cheated"
Anyone who played this game long enough has at some point experienced devastating results. Losing hand after hand, to the point where you question the fairness of the game. Truth is, 99 % of the games you will encounter in a lifetime are dealt fair and square.
Nightshifter
Well-Known Member
Anyway, I know most people don't agree with my findings, so I don't want to argue about it. Instead, I just want to say, experienced players should rely on their experience and gut feelings. If something feels wrong to you, don't play that game / casino until you figure out what is wrong, if anything. And if you can't satisfy yourself, stay away from that game/location permanently. There are too many fish in the sea.
Merry Christmas LL Kewl J I very much tell others the same thing as to be aware what's going on and either know how to play through it or just leave! Usually the latter is optimal. Believe me... it goes on and is more prevalent in the tribal casinos. Where there's money there's always corruption of some sort going on.
Merry Christmas LL Kewl J
I very much tell others the same thing as to be aware what's going on and either know how to play through it or just leave! Usually the latter is optimal. Believe me... it goes on and is more prevalent in the tribal casinos. Where there's money there's always corruption of some sort going on.