Macau Trip Report

[StudiodeKadent]

After my recent trip to Macau, I wanted to fill in the people here about how it went.

First, I'll say I had a blast, and I want to thank SystemsTrader, who gave me advice before I went.

As usual, I lost money overall, but I didn't care since I had a blast. By bizzare coincidence, I won money when I was playing with my mother, and lost when she wasn't there (this is bizzare because 1) I play near perfect BS, and I basically told her what to do, so really, it was a coincidence, and 2) my mother is ill and according to local superstition, ill people are bad luck!).

My family and I stayed at the Venetian. The Venetian is a great resort. The rooms were obviously constructed in a relatively hurried fashion (cracks in doorframes etc) however they are utterly huge, extremely comfortable (especially the beds!) and great value for money. Indeed, Macau is amazingly cheap, especially compared to Hong Kong. But the facilities in The Venetian are amazing in terms of free entertainment, variety, and they do have excellent high-end facilities as well. Additionally, they have 2 18-hole mini-golf courses!

My only real problem with The Venetian is its gambling is not the best in Macau! The Cotai Strip casinos (currently The Venetian and The Plaza at the Four Seasons) have HKD$200 minimum bets per hand of Blackjack. This is overpriced, even IF the house edge is only .16%

I will say that my favorite casino in Macau is the Wynn. HKD$100 table minimums (nice and sane and reasonable), complementary drink service for players, a relaxed, classy and club-like atmosphere, not too many whores (wheras there are quite a few at the Venetian, and a hell of a lot at the Lisboa)(although I guess some will consider an active sex industry a good thing for a place)(personally I like a sex industry, it gives a place character, but too many relatively obvious prostitutes is annoying). Also, UNLIKE last year, you can finally get liquor inside the Casino! (last year it was chinese tea only!).

Additionally, the Wynn's rules are the same as the Venetian's, except resplitting aces IS allowed. The house edge is therefore 0.08%.
RULES AT THE WYNN AND COTAI STRIP CASINOS
6 Deck CSM
Double After Split OK
Double Any First Two Cards
Split Any Pair
Early Surrender against anything except a dealer ace
Original Bets Only if dealer BJ's
Resplitting Aces OK (at Wynn only)
Cannot hit split aces

Overall house edge: Wynn = 0.08%, Cotai Strip = 0.16%

My second favorite casino would be The Plaza at the Four Seasons. Same Cotai Strip minimums, but free drink service, live music, a classier atmosphere, and the Four Seasons has a really cool bar outside the casino as well.

I still think that the Venetian has the best entertainment and variety and spectacle, but if I were staying on Cotai I'd take the Four Seasons (its connected to the Venetian so I don't miss out on anything!). However, next time I stay in Macau, it will be at the Wynn.

The Wynn is closer to the action, and to the historical districts, it has less variety but more consistency, better casino, a really cool fountain, fire and light show (mini-Bellagio), my favorite cocktail bar in Macau, and its overall higher quality. So for the 'serious gambler' or 'hotel cocooner' I'd take the Wynn. For cocooners or high rollers, the Four Seasons. For families and for people that enjoy gambling but place equal priority on other kinds of entertainment, I'd take the Venetian. You can get high-end food at all three places so they are roughly equal there.

The Venetian is probably the best value in everything apart from the Casino.

OTHER THINGS THAT ARE GREAT ABOUT MACAU
1) Portuguese Egg Custard Tarts: The local equivalent of Krispy Kreme and just as addictive. Probably just as fattening too.

2) The food. Oh my god the food. This place is food heaven. Its as good as Hong Kong but with the Spanish and Portuguese twist.

3) Robouchon. A restaurant at the Lisboa. Easily one of the best meals I have ever had the joy of eating. If I were to go on about how damn good the meal was, the description would be five paragraphs long and pornographically descriptive.

4) The Venetian is incredible entertainment even if it IS the height of bad taste (however, its the GOOD kind of bad taste that only the Americans can do well... the Disneyland bad taste that pretentious Europeans pretend to hate but secretly absolutely adore it).

5) The Grand Lisboa is the height of bad taste, but NOT the good kind. This is just plain awful. Specifically, its a glass skyscraper shaped like a Lotus, covered in neon lights (following the 'petals'), and the "bulb" of the building is covered in lights that are used as a 'projection screen.' On the inside, EVERYTHING is covered in ropes of Swavorski crystal, every light fitting, every column, every escalator.

6) Lowest house edges, on average, in the world.

Really, I could keep going on, but I won't. My time in Macau was amazing and I'll happily answer any questions anyone has.

 

[nc-tom]

sure not surprised to hear the Lisboa is still a dump. It was a dump 10 years ago. Biggest problem with the report are 3 letters. CSM ug.

 

[EasyRhino]

For refernence, $100HKD is about $13US, right?

The CSMs are disappointing. Did you see any games that didn't use them?

I'm not so sure if you have the house edge on the games figured out right. Even with ES10, it doesn't seem like the edge would get down to 0.08%. You didn't mention if the games are S17 or H17 btw.

Were you able to check out any of the old crappy places in Macau? I'm assuming there are still old, crappy places.

 

[Elhombre]

What CSM brand

Studio---- my question, what brand of CSM's do they use in
Macau, the One2 Six ?

And do the dealers shuffle the cards, before they insert the cards
into the machines ?
Or without any shuffling?

regards rainer:cool2:

 

[Mr. T]

Thanks for the info.

Your estimation of the house advantage is way too low. It is around 0.50%

Hope you realise you are playing the correct game i.e. the ENHC and not the US game. For the basic strategy player the CSM is not an issue.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Thanks for the info.

Your estimation of the house advantage is way too low. It is around 0.50%

Hope you realise you are playing the correct game i.e. the ENHC and not the US game. For the basic strategy player the CSM is not an issue.

You're quite mistaken. Check out wizard of macau's website.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

sure not surprised to hear the Lisboa is still a dump. It was a dump 10 years ago. Biggest problem with the report are 3 letters. CSM ug.

The Lisboa is not a dump. Its just quite obvious that its a multiple-time-renovated, badly designed rabbit warren. It DOES have the best restaurant in Macau: Robouchon. I dislike SJM properties and I refuse to gamble in their casinos (ethical reasons) but I won't refuse a good restaurant or hotel room at an SJM property.

For refernence, $100HKD is about $13US, right?

Approximately, yes. It fluctuates depending on the Hong Kong currency board's decisions, but basically the value of the currency is 'dirty-floated' (i.e. the currency board sells and buys Forex reserves to keep the value within a target band against several different currencies).

The CSMs are disappointing. Did you see any games that didn't use them?

All Macau casinos use CSM's, at least according to Michael Shakelford. Certainly all the casinos I went to use CSM. I didn't see any shoe games.

. You didn't mention if the games are S17 or H17 btw.

Dealer stands on soft 17.

Were you able to check out any of the old crappy places in Macau? I'm assuming there are still old, crappy places.

No. I only gambled at the Venetian, the Plaza at the Four Seasons (basically an extension of the Venetian) and the Wynn. I did go inside the Lisboa's casinos but I didn't gamble there (moral problems with state-priveliged monopolists).

Studio---- my question, what brand of CSM's do they use in
Macau, the One2 Six ?

Yes, they use One2Six CSMs

And do the dealers shuffle the cards, before they insert the cards
into the machines ?

Yes. And at least at the Wynn they reshuffle a filled discard tray before putting the cards back in. At the Venetian, they simply put all the used cards in after every hand.

And Blue Efficacy is correct. Macau Blackjack is NOT ENHC at the Venetian or Wynn or the Galaxy Casinos (or the Crown Macau). Even though yes, they don't take a hole card, the dealer takes original bets only if the dealer BJ's. At the SJM properties (which, apart from the Lisboa, have a sadistic house edge of roughly 0.85% (the Lisboa's is 0.01% because of a "win 1.5-1" rule on any five card hand)), the dealer takes everything if the dealer Blackjacks.

As for the accuracy of my house edge calculations, unless the Wizard of Odds house edge calculator is wrong, I stand by my calculations. I should add, the Wizard of Macau website is out of date about the rules. Wynn used to be 4 deck, it went up to 6 deck.

 

[Mr. T]

The Wizard of Odds website is US based. So careful reading and analysis of what he wrote on European BJ is required. Since there are no other books or websites on European BJ that I know of the Wizard has the best info so far.

I can see where you are coming from. this was what you were looking at.

Rule Variations

Rule
Effect

Blackjacks pay 2 to 1 +2.27%
Five card Charlie 1 +1.46%
Suited blackjacks pay 2 to 1 +0.57%
Player 21-points is automatic winner +0.54%
Early surrender against ace
+0.39%

Early surrender against ten
+0.24%

5-card (or more) 21 automatically pays 2 to 1 +0.24%
Player may double on any number of cards +0.23%
Ace and 10 after splitting aces is a blackjack +0.19%
Player may draw to split aces
+0.19%

Six card Charlie1
+0.16%

Double Down Rescue +0.10%
Player may resplit aces
+0.08%

Late surrender against ten
+0.07%

777 pays 3 to 1 automatically +0.05%
777 pays 2 to 1 automatically +0.03%
Seven card Charlie1
+0.01%

Late surrender against ace +0.00%
Dealer must stop with six cards +0.00%
Late surrender after splitting
+0.00%

Split to only 2 hands
-0.01%

No-peek: ace showing2 -0.01%

BB+13 -0.01%

OBBO4 -0.03%

Player and dealer cards dealt from separate shoes5 -0.06%
Player may double on 9-11 only
-0.09%

No-peek: ten showing6
-0.10%

Player may not resplit
-0.10%

European no hole card7 -0.11% Player may not double after splitting
-0.14%

Player may double on 10,11 only
-0.18%

Player may not split aces -0.18%
Dealer hits on soft 17
-0.22%

Blackkjack pays 7-5 -0.45%
Blackjack pays 6-5
-1.39%

Player loses 17 ties
-1.87%

Blackjacks pay 1 to 1 -2.27%
Player loses 17,18 ties
-3.58%

Player loses 17-19 ties
-5.30%

Player loses 17-20 ties
-8.38%

Player loses 17-21 ties -8.86%
Dealer bust on 22 is a push -9.53%

You must look again at the heading here. says Rules Variations. So thefigure here ENHC -0.11 is not the absolute value but he relative value over the US game.

You would want to see what the Wizard says about European BJ here

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/strategy/european.html

He gives an example of HA of -0.62%. But even this work is not complete as he did not incorporate the surrender option.

So expect about 0.50% HA depending on the exact house rules. Wynn and Sands offering would be about the same as their LAS casinos which they have operated for decades and not the almost no HA in Macau as you said.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

I think Mr. T needs to do some more reading.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

I think Mr. T needs to do some more reading.

Agreed. Because the Blackjack in Macau ISN'T ENHC! ENHC means the dealer takes everything, including doubling down and splitting wagers, when the dealer Blackjacks. In Macau, at the Wynn, Galaxy Casinos and Venetian, the dealer takes only the original wager, and additional wagers made for splitting and doubling are returned.

 

[Mr. T]

You quoted your source of HA calculation from the Wizard of Odds.

Show me where from his website you derive your figuires.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

You quoted your source of HA calculation from the Wizard of Odds.

Show me where from his website you derive your figuires.

Gladly.

The Wizard of Odds, aka. Mr Michael Shackleford, runs http://www.wizardofmacau.com. On this website, he lists the Wynn house edge as 0.06%, but at the time he did the calculation, the Wynn used 4 decks in the CSM (see: http://wizardofmacau.com/games/blackjack.html )

Now, they use 6 decks, which means the only difference between the Wynn and the Galaxy Casinos is that the Galaxy Casinos forbid resplitting of aces (see the same webpage). The Galaxy casinos house edge is calculated by Mr Shackleford to be, under perfect BS, 0.16% (the Galaxy rules are the same rules used on the Cotai Strip (i.e. Venetian, Four Seasons).

So, I took the BS house edge for the Cotai Strip (0.16%) and I subtracted the benefit that resplitting aces gives (which, according to the Wizard of odds, is 0.08%). I am aware that the Wizard of Odds house edge calculations are relative to a specific rule set, but I doubt RSA's effect changes wildly (it may by a few hundredths of a percentage point but I doubt it would vary incredibly). So yes, I am aware Wynn's house edge may not be exactly 0.08%but I doubt I am significantly off. I know that the house edge is less than 0.16%, certainly.

 

[Mr. T]

My query is with the Surrender figuires posted by the Wizard. For instance for the US game for late surrender, 16 vs Ace is obviously a surrender play and his chart actually say so. Yet in his rules variation his figuire is 0.00%. This mean there is no advantage in surrendering. This is the contradiction in his website and therby throws up the varacity of his ES10 +0.24% figuire.

Having said that, it is not your ball to carry. You have delivered the goods and as the saying goes you have earned your pay today.

The HA is low ,yes very low and we dont see figuires like that in mature markets like LAS. Could the high minimum bets in Macau have any correlation to this low HA you think.

Since you sound like you know what you are talking about I like to ask you about Comps in Macau since no gambling experience is complete with this component. What Comps did you get and what better ways would you try if you go back again. It may pursuade me to make a trip to Macau before the good times end and they make changes to the rules.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

My query is with the Surrender figuires posted by the Wizard. For instance for the US game for late surrender, 16 vs Ace is obviously a surrender play and his chart actually say so. Yet in his rules variation his figuire is 0.00%. This mean there is no advantage in surrendering. This is the contradiction in his website and therby throws up the varacity of his ES10 +0.24% figuire.

Having said that, it is not your ball to carry. You have delivered the goods and as the saying goes you have earned your pay today.

The HA is low ,yes very low and we dont see figuires like that in mature markets like LAS. Could the high minimum bets in Macau have any correlation to this low HA you think.

The minimum bet at the Wynn is 100 HKD, roughly USD$13, and roughly $18 Australian (at current forex rates). I don't really consider this a high minimum bet (or more correctly an unreasonably high one).

The Sands and Cotai Strip casinos (i.e. the Venetian and Plaza) have the expensive $200HKD minimums but this is roughly in line with the minimum bets in Las Vegas for similar rules (i.e. 6-deck late surrender DAS RSA). You could probably get the same game for less at the Galaxy Casinos (Waldo, Grand Waldo, StarWorld) (I haven't been in them but I was told the minimum bet there would certainly be 100, possibly even just 50)). And allegedly the President allows resplitting of aces AND hitting on split aces (this is only something I've heard... I'll have to wait to my next trip to check it out more).

Since you sound like you know what you are talking about I like to ask you about Comps in Macau since no gambling experience is complete with this component. What Comps did you get and what better ways would you try if you go back again. It may pursuade me to make a trip to Macau before the good times end and they make changes to the rules.

I think that Macau's comps policy is more tight-fisted than Vegas's. Admittedly I always bet the lowest minimum and flat-betted, and I play with relatively modest bankrolls. However, I did join the Wynn and Cotai Rewards players clubs. Basically, the only comps I got were the free drinks at the table.

I think this is because, well, the chinese market is very fond of gambling and casinos don't have to work as hard to tempt people to come to the tables.

As for how long this 'cheap good rules' period will last, I wouldn't expect it to end until well into 2010. This recession will keep the Casinos conscious of providing value for money. Hell, the Wynn explicitly advertises its HKD100 table minimums. Plus there are more reasons to go to Macau than gambling... the restaurants are enough a reason to go! But yes, I'd advise trying Macau, especially if you like food.

And the Pousada de Sao Tiago has an amazing Spanish restaurant. The chef used to work at Il Bulli. Its about half the price of Hong Kong, too!

I'd recommend staying at the Wynn, personally. But if you want a more authentically Macanese experience, the StarWorld or Lisboa is a good place to start. But expect appalling taste at both places (still the food is fantastic, but if you are staying at the Wynn, you are only accross the road from Robouchon at the Lisboa).

How do you prioritize your experience? Gambling, food, hotel comfort, hotel ambience/taste/atmosphere, authenticity, entertainment, Location? Please give me a rank order so I could make a recommendation.

 

[Mr. T]

What no Comps?

I myself would not gamble at all if there is no Comps. For regular gamblers I think the deciding factor on where to gamble depends largely on the casino Comps. Yes the chinese are serious gamblers but that doesnt mean that the Comps are not important to them. I always flat bet and is considered a mosquito size player amongst others but since the points I get is only dependant on my time of play it doesnt make sense to make big bets and lose more money.

How do you prioritize your experience? Gambling, food, hotel comfort, hotel ambience/taste/atmosphere, authenticity, entertainment, Location? Please give me a rank order so I could make a recommendation.

Food is not important to me. My gambling trips would be equated with that of going and enjoying all the amenities of a resort. That is why I am a regular on Star Cruises ships, very very regular lately like spending more time on the ship than on land in this past month. Apart from the small lost playing BS in BJ everything else is free except having to pay for the sea port tax.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

What no Comps?

I myself would not gamble at all if there is no Comps. For regular gamblers I think the deciding factor on where to gamble depends largely on the casino Comps. Yes the chinese are serious gamblers but that doesnt mean that the Comps are not important to them. I always flat bet and is considered a mosquito size player amongst others but since the points I get is only dependant on my time of play it doesnt make sense to make big bets and lose more money.

I understand. All I am saying is that I was not comped when I was in Macau (apart from drinks when I was at the table). I probably didn't gamble for long enough. Although yes, I did accumulate points on players club cards, but I didn't get comps beyond drinks.

How do you prioritize your experience? Gambling, food, hotel comfort, hotel ambience/taste/atmosphere, authenticity, entertainment, Location? Please give me a rank order so I could make a recommendation.

Food is not important to me. My gambling trips would be equated with that of going and enjoying all the amenities of a resort. That is why I am a regular on Star Cruises ships, very very regular lately like spending more time on the ship than on land in this past month. Apart from the small lost playing BS in BJ everything else is free except having to pay for the sea port tax.

OK. Well then I'd probably suggest the Wynn or Venetian. Venetian is better on variety, entertainment and shopping, wheras the Wynn is better for location, gambling and consistently high quality. Given gambling is probably a relatively high priority for you (since this is a blackjack forum) I'm tempted to give it to the Wynn by a small margin. Also you are close to the historic districts and the like.

 

[Mr. T]

Do you have any idea what the Wynn Comps system is like since you have a Wynn card and have points on it.

A fellow gambler of mine got great Comps from the Sands. But he is a heavy hitter on Slots. He tells me he brings S$10,000 on each cruise. He tells me that when when he went to Macau this last time Sands had a limosine waiting for him at the airport, Comp his 2 night stay and then moved him to the Four Seasons for the third night.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

Do you have any idea what the Wynn Comps system is like since you have a Wynn card and have points on it.

All I know is that I only have 2 points on it, and you need about 900 to get a cigarette lighter shaped like the hotel.

However, I admit, I don't have huge bankrolls. Speaking of huge bankrolls...

A fellow gambler of mine got great Comps from the Sands. But he is a heavy hitter on Slots. He tells me he brings S$10,000 on each cruise. He tells me that when when he went to Macau this last time Sands had a limosine waiting for him at the airport, Comp his 2 night stay and then moved him to the Four Seasons for the third night.

That sounds understandable. I gamble with far less money (I think the gambling budget for my mother and I was HKD$4500 in total, and this lasted a whole week, plus we didn't lose much overall, and we didn't gamble every day). 10k Sing-Bucks WOULD get you comped, especially if you play slots.

Given Adelson is using a Vegas-esque comp strategy, I think Wynn would as well. So I would assume Wynn's comp policy is roughly the same.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

The HA is low ,yes very low and we dont see figuires like that in mature markets like LAS. Could the high minimum bets in Macau have any correlation to this low HA you think.

Sorry for the double post but I have done a lot of thinking about the factors behind house edges. As an economist I find these things interesting.

WHY MACAU HOUSE EDGES ARE LOWER THAN VEGAS: POSSIBLE FACTORS
(note: these are all theories)

1) Labor costs. A Macanese dealer costs less than an American dealer.

2) Shoe vs. CSM. Macau prevents Advantage Play and thus they can rely on a more consistent flow of income from the game.

3) Competition is quite intense since a monopoly (Stanley Ho's SJM) recently lost its priveliges and thus other companies are aggressively carving out market share. It seems fortuitous to note that the BJ house edge at all SJM casinos apart from the Lisboa (and possibly the Grand Lisboa) is higher than the house edges of any of the competitors (see http://www.wizardofmacau.com).

4) Blackjack is not the big game in Macau. Baccarat is. And Baccarat has a house edge of at least 1% on the "banker" hand (the lowest house edge in the game). Baccarat provides a larger and more consistent stream of income than Blackjack.

5) Macau's clientelle is less 'cashed up' than Vegas's (note: this does not stop the Sands casinos from demanding HKD$200 table minimums!!!).

6) Macau is much more gambling-focussed wheras Vegas has a more diverse focus. Thus, the marginal benefit gained by the casino from each gambler must be higher since the average Vegas gambler probably gambles less religiously than the average Macau gambler (ceteris paribus).

 

[Elhombre]

My question young men, all what you write here, you have an disadvantage,
you are splitting hairs.
How could you win over the house ? It would be better don't play
and keep your money.
regards rainer:cool2: