My first LV trip without a backoff

[21forme]

Recently returned from LV and had my first backoff-free trip in a year (made 5 trips in the last year).
Is this a good or bad thing?
Does it mean I should have been more aggressive?

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Not enough info. What types of games are you playing? Betting limits? Spread? Session length? For example, if you're a nickel player spreading 1-16 and you have a backoff every trip, I'd be worried about what you're doing wrong, not whether or not you're playing too aggressively. Hell, if you're betting black, I'd be concerned about how to prevent backoffs in the future rather than why you didn't get backed off this trip. Congrats on not getting nailed this time, though?

 

[blackjack avenger]

Learning From Experience?

Are you learning from your backoffs so as to not repeat them? It appears you might not be.

Backoffs are probably a bad thing:joker::whip:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Just a combination of game selection and variance. If you play exclusively shoe on the Strip it takes a lot to get backed off. If you spend a lot of time doing things beyond counting you might not get easily backed off either, but when you do you are going to be in trouble, trespassed at least.

 

[NightStalker]

I'm still on my trip

and already has 4 of them.. It's bad if they know your name or can recognize you in your next trip. All of my backoffs are polite, sweet and smiling requests. I don't mind either of them as they have no idea about my identity.

 

[FLASH1296]

The best advice to offer a newbie Card Counter [and 21forme is anything but that !]

is to avoid DD games with excellent rules, as they are all-but-obvious Counter Traps

There are numerous very playable shoe games that are [yet] readily available.

 

[MAZ]

Recently returned from LV and had my first backoff-free trip in a year (made 5 trips in the last year).
Is this a good or bad thing?
Does it mean I should have been more aggressive?

Wow, I think my mouth is bleeding from biting my tongue on this one! I will offer only this as my truth to you would probably get deleted. Getting backed off is not a measure of success good or bad. If you are judging trips or question your play based on that, stop playing, you don't get it. Also for real good players its usually not being aggressive that causes a backoff. Being bold and knowing what you're doing can many times keep you undetected more so then passive play. If you want that explained you can pm me, but be prepared for my real thoughts on your post here. Nothing personal, just blunt honest truth.

 

[moo321]

Recently returned from LV and had my first backoff-free trip in a year (made 5 trips in the last year).
Is this a good or bad thing?
Does it mean I should have been more aggressive?

If you got your money down with good EV, you had a good trip. Backoffs are usually bad.

 

[Sucker]

Something is definitely wrong. Are you remembering to NOT move your lips along with the count?

 

[Ravn]

Counters are often more focused on the game because they know what they are doing vs. "dumb people" who just play for fun. Speak to the dealer, make some outbursts, laugh etc.

Blackjack is a game so behave like it's fun and not like it's your job.
A hard balance I know

 

[creeping panther]

Hmmm

Recently returned from LV and had my first backoff-free trip in a year (made 5 trips in the last year).
Is this a good or bad thing?
Does it mean I should have been more aggressive?

AHhhhhh.......Ya!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::grin:

CP

Always Warm And Fuzzy
CP

 

[creeping panther]

Dd

The best advice to offer a newbie Card Counter [and 21forme is anything but that !]

is to avoid DD games with excellent rules, as they are all-but-obvious Counter Traps

There are numerous very playable shoe games that are [yet] readily available.

I must repectfully differ with you on the above.

If you see a good game play it. If you are at the point of playing inferior games for fear of getting scrutiny at the fine games, time to find something better to do with your time. :yikes:

No offense, Flash, but this is very questionable, "blanket", advice from such a learned player as yourself.

Always Warm And Fuzzy,
CP

 

[FLASH1296]

Greed Kills.

Longevity is a precious commodity.

I stand behind what I said.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Greed Kills.

Longevity is a precious commodity.

I stand behind what I said.

Let's create a generality out of this:

In Las Vegas, there is no heavily-protected game (DD) that is so much better than a low-heat game (Strip shoe) that it's worth getting flyered all over town for the extra EV.

Could you agree with that? If they were dealing RO7 SD someplace, sure, it's with the risk, but not for Station DD.

Also, from personal experience, on a bad-heat trip I spent a significant amount of time getting dicked around by the house dicks; walked to the cage, walked to my car, getting out of the lot and repeating the process over again at the next store. Backoffs are time-consuming, and for a part-timer that is an issue and costs a measurable amount of EV, so that has to be figured into your profit equations too.

 

[FLASH1296]

post scriptum

I am not a bit surprised that the Auto' Simian so eloquently expressed what I should have said in the first place.

Incidentally, if you are playing at some MGM stores and you walk past the High Stakes DD games to play a $25 6 decker, your e.v. drops from .19% to .26%.

I am willing to trade the inherent advantages of the DD game for the stress-reduction of the better shoe games !

Needless to say — there is more than e.v. to be considered.

I am both Risk Averse and Stress Averse. :cool2:

 

[21forme]

Just got back from today's trip to the casino (not LV) and see the many responses.

General conditions of my play:
Anon just about everywhere.
Played mostly shoes (10-12:1), some DD at both Station and MGM (6:1), green to black.
Never play a DD game more than 30 min, unless the count went nowhere and I never raised by bet more than 2U. Sometimes shorter.
Never play a shoe game more than an hour, shorter if more than one shoe ends with a big bet.
No, I'm not moving my lips. I can carry on a conversation and count at the same time, as well as backcount 2 adjacent tables while faking a phone call

I am of the attitude that I don't care if there is a back-off every now and then, as I'm only returning to the same place/shift once every 4 months or so. Out of sight, out of mind. I keep good records, so know where not to go at what time.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

...I can carry on a conversation and count at the same time, as well as backcount 2 adjacent tables while faking a phone call ...

That's good! I'd need to drink too much to do that.

Health teacher told me: "Alcohol makes you believe you can do things you wouldn't otherwise."

Coach told me: "You have to believe you can do something before you can do it."

Therefore: Drink enough, and you can do anything!

 

[Solo player]

Why not just play rated?

Why not establish credit and play rated? I think getting credit is good cover. I've done this at a few casinos on the strip for a couple of years now playing quarters on DD games. I've won a few grand playing this way(About 60 hrs of table time)

 

[moo321]

Why not establish credit and play rated? I think getting credit is good cover. I've done this at a few casinos on the strip for a couple of years now playing quarters on DD games. I've won a few grand playing this way(About 60 hrs of table time)

If you get busted, they have your name, bank account info, address, etc.

 

[Solo player]

Play Anon

Well when you get busted then just play Anon. Take the comps for as long as they last.