AerialSnack

New Member
Optimal bet spreads tend to do something like:
TC < 2: \$15
TC 2: \$75
TC 3: \$150
TC 4:+ \$180

for a 1-12 spread. I would love to bet like that, but I don't think the casino would take to kindly to it. Most questions on bet spread are about how to get the optimal spread (CVData, duh), but I haven't seen much discussion on camouflaging your bet aside from "Optimal bet ramps are suspicious". So, a couple of questions. How much less suspicion (a general feeling, I suppose, since it's something impossible to quantify) would the following bet spread garner compared to the previous optimal one?

TC < 1: \$15
TC 1: \$30
TC 2: \$75
TC 3: \$150
TC 4+: \$180

Also, would something like betting \$80 instead of \$75 at TC 2 be something worth considering just for the ease of paying out for blackjacks? I'm not worried about surrenders since there are no local joints that offer it. I don't often see people throw a red chip on a stack of green ones though.

EDIT: I figured I'd clarify a bit more. In the example of the fully optimal bet, if the count fluctuates between say 1 and 2, I feel like it would be easier to switch back to \$30 after a few hands of \$75 than going down to \$15. Going to \$15 after \$30 seems reasonable too. Obviously, if I ever start hitting hands where I'm dropping \$150 or \$180 and winning and the the count suddenly drops or the shoe ends, I'm just gonna leave, not stick around thinking "Maybe I should bet \$100 at the start of the shoe to not be suspicious..."

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KewlJ

Well-Known Member
'Absolute' optimal spread is great....obviously...."optimal", but except at very low limits, it is kind of unrealistic and even counter productive (<-) because it actually draws more attention in a number of ways.

First thing I want to do is make it so payoffs are smooth and quick, especially at the higher end. I don't want multiple color wagers and payoffs slowing down the game. I want the game to flow so there is minimal time for an evaluation. So to that, let me ask, why is your top wager \$180? Can you safely afford \$200? That is a much better number as far as keeping the game moving.

So I am going to assume you are playing a \$15 minimum wager game. Shoe game 6 or 8 decks?

Just a suggestion, but if I was playing these limits, I think my base bet, that is what I start off the top with and bet from -1 to +1 TC would be \$25. then at TC +1 or maybe slightly higher, +1 and some change, I would bump to \$50. By this point the game is about even (for the +1 bucket), so you aren't bumping because you are at an advantage, but rather to smooth out the ramp and avoid that first big jump.

Then I would go ahead and use your \$75 @ +2, \$150 @ +3 and the 'new' \$200 @ +4 (max bet). Then on the negative count side, at TC -1, I would go ahead and drop to the \$15 minimum. While this would still be a total spread in the same neighborhood, 1-13, to see the full spread the pit would have to first see the count go negative to -1 and then positive to +4, and be paying attention to all of it. More often than not, pit will mark your first wager down as \$25 and when you get to max bet, they will have you at a 1-8 spread, which is 50% less than the 1-12 you would have shown.

This technique is called spreading both ways. You could even get into a little more extreme variation and bet \$50 off the top, just for a round or two, just long enough for the pit to mark that \$50 down and then immediately drop down to \$25 (unless the count has risen to the point that continuing betting \$50 is warranted). That likely will result in the recording your spread as \$50-\$200 or 1-4, even if you drop down to \$25.

These things really do help camouflage spread, but you gotta have the adequate bankroll for it. If you are playing on a tight bankroll at high RoR, don't try this.

AerialSnack

New Member
KewlJ said:
So I am going to assume you are playing a \$15 minimum wager game. Shoe game 6 or 8 decks?
6D, H17, RSA, DAS, No Surrender, roughly 75% penetration.

There are \$10 min tables but I have never seen them not full, generally one or two open and they're swarmed. There are also \$25 min tables, and they are always completely empty. I suppose I could try going at less busy times like 2am.

I have the luxury of counting as a hobby, so I'm not too concerned about bankrupting. Just wait a couple of months and try again with a couple months more of training. Your way of going about it makes a lot more sense, and makes my use of green chips less conspicuous at a generally low action table. I'll just have to deal with the pink chips lmao. Thank you!