Socializing at the table

[Dopple]

Although I am usually pretty quiet I wonder if it might help keeping you from getting backed off if you create a fun climate with the other players. The house may not want to cause trouble if one is having fun with the group.

 

[johndoe]

Comportment is definitely an important aspect to getting away with card counting. Being friendly, jovial, and looking like you're out to have a good time is a decent act that does help.

But if they evaluate your play, and peg you as a counter, I expect it won't matter. The benefit is that they're probably less likely to run down your play if you're acting well.

 

[21forme]

Especially if you get chummy with a high rolling regular at the table.

 

[ZenKinG]

Doesn't matter. You want to know why? Because most backoffs don't happen at the table unless you're alone there or they simply have no choice (a threat) and simply don't care about any possible backlash or questioning from the other players or they determine that the other players won't care. So to avoid this they'll get you instead as you're leaving, coming out of the bathroom, or if you mistakenly go to the cashier(where most backoffs happen cause of the great camera footage there). If they can't get you as you're leaving, expect the tap before you even place a bet the next time you come in as they'll have you photographed and on alert for your next visit.

All of this is irrelevant anyway because casinos are powerless to trespass you. So who cares if they back you off, just give it some time and come back again time and time again. Casinos are not the private property they like to claim to be. While they're a private business, they are bound by public laws since they are a public place. It's simply unconstitutional for them to trespass you without good cause. Now if you're causing a disturbance, destroying property, that is different and they'll have legal grounds to prevent you from entering the building again and if you come back you'll be arrested.

Go ahead and find me one card counter who did nothing malicious, wasn't disorderly, caused no trouble, and simply played the game like everyone else and ended up getting arrested and convicted of a criminal trespass in court and you'll have your answer. And that's IF they even get arrested because most casinos are not stupid enough(surprisingly I know) to put cuffs on you. So even IF you do get arrested, it will just be thrown out in district court once you seek discovery. You don't even need a corrupt lawyer either. Use your 6th amendment rights and represent yourself and save the expense.

 

[Dummy]

So to avoid this they'll get you instead as you're leaving, coming out of the bathroom, or if you mistakenly go to the cashier(where most backoffs happen cause of the great camera footage there).

This is an out of date idea. They may feel that is their best shot of getting your ID. But cameras are great all over the casino. If they want your ID in this information age they can identify you pretty easy without ant help from you. I haven't had many BOs so take this with a grain of salt. ALL my backs came before I played a hand on a return visit or to start the day. I have been backed off at at least one casino in 4 different states. Some states I lost 2 to 5 casinos at once through networking. Every single one came before the start of play for that day. Some I never gave ID to but they called me by name when backing me off. In Vegas Griffin Agents will follow you until they get your ID if they can't get it through normal means or the web.

Now if you're causing a disturbance, destroying property, that is different and they'll have legal grounds to prevent you from entering the building again and if you come back you'll be arrested.

So now you think the casinos will play by the rules when trespassing you? I would think you would be sure you would end up convicted on some trumped up charge just so the BO is legal. How is getting a serious charge on your record plus EV? I know of several people that got trespassed on bogus charges.

 

[ZenKinG]

This is an out of date idea. They may feel that is their best shot of getting your ID. But cameras are great all over the casino. If they want your ID in this information age they can identify you pretty easy without ant help from you. I haven't had many BOs so take this with a grain of salt. ALL my backs came before I played a hand on a return visit or to start the day. I have been backed off at at least one casino in 4 different states. Some states I lost 2 to 5 casinos at once through networking. Every single one came before the start of play for that day. Some I never gave ID to but they called me by name when backing me off. In Vegas Griffin Agents will follow you until they get your ID if they can't get it through normal means or the web.

So now you think the casinos will play by the rules when trespassing you? I would think you would be sure you would end up convicted on some trumped up charge just so the BO is legal. How is getting a serious charge on your record plus EV? I know of several people that got trespassed on bogus charges.

I wouldn't say it's completely out of date. Sure some of the huge places like MGM and what not now have sophisticated enough cameras above the table that can read the ID when laid upon the felt after the dealer requests it for age verification, but that's why I hand it face down because it's much harder for the camera to now get a picture of my ID while it's moving in the dealers hand. For the most part, at most casinos, the best camera footage is still at the cashier. Nice tey though always trying to argue and reinvent the wheel when someone posts about a particular topic. Luckily I'm here to sort you out.

Secondly, I would love for a casino to try and trespass me on a bogus charge. The people you know that got convicted of a trespass on a bogus charge must have had a poor lawyer or didn't fight it, or tried defending themselves without knowing what they're doing. All you have to do is request video from the day they trespassed you and bring it into evidence for everyone to see. If they try to railroad you in court, appeal it until you get a jury trial. Also don't forget to seek discovery in district court, before proceeding further.

 

[Dummy]

Secondly, I would love for a casino to try and trespass me on a bogus charge. The people you know that got convicted of a trespass on a bogus charge must have had a poor lawyer or didn't fight it, or tried defending themselves without knowing what they're doing.

You obviously have little to no experience in court. It doesn't come down to guilt or innocence. It is about appearances. When it is your word against many casino employees you will lose every time. The APs lost because the casino employees lied. You need to sort out your imaginary reality with what actually happens in real life. Maybe once you are older you will have enough experience to know how things work in real life.

Sure some of the huge places like MGM and what not now have sophisticated enough cameras above the table that can read the ID when laid upon the felt after the dealer requests it for age verification, but that's why I hand it face down because it's much harder for the camera to now get a picture of my ID while it's moving in the dealers hand.

The cameras primary function at the table is to watch the dealer's hands. The biggest threat to the casino is not APs. It is employee theft. If you think they don't get a great view on the primary camera for the table of anything the dealer handles you don't understand what casinos priorities are for protecting their games. Dealer theft is THE primary concern of surveillance when it comes to game protection.

 

[ZenKinG]

You obviously have little to no experience in court. It doesn't come down to guilt or innocence. It is about appearances. When it is your word against many casino employees you will lose every time. The APs lost because the casino employees lied. You need to sort out your imaginary reality with what actually happens in real life. Maybe once you are older you will have enough experience to know how things work in real life.
The cameras primary function at the table is to watch the dealer's hands. The biggest threat to the casino is not APs. It is employee theft. If you think they don't get a great view on the primary camera for the table of anything the dealer handles you don't understand what casinos priorities are for protecting their games. Dealer theft is THE primary concern of surveillance when it comes to game protection.

Nice try in getting your ego fix by trying to correct me, but none of the points you made had to do with anything I said. Go re read my post and try again

 

[Dummy]

Nice try in getting your ego fix by trying to correct me, but none of the points you made had to do with anything I said. Go re read my post and try again

I guess you think the dealer doesn't have to handle your ID if you place it face down? He just use his x-ray vision. That is probably the way they are cheating you. Dealers can see the next card by looking at its back with Z-ray vision. You guys talking about my ego are ridiculously lacking logic. I post many posts that I know are controversial and will have me the focus of attack. If I cared about ego I would only post things that would be lauded by the masses. Clearly you lack the ability to make logical conclusions for yourself. One idiot makes an idiotic conclusion and all the other idiots pick it up without even thinking it through.

I am constantly getting laughs about how illogical their conclusions are and how much they are a polar opposite of the truth. I even had a very respected poster offer to do sims for me. I thanked him and sent him lots of sim data showing what I could do so far and what I still need help doing. He apologized, saying it is obvious you have been simming your system for years. He said he was sorry he listened to all the people that can't know the truth rather than the only one that knows the truth. He didn't think his playing simulator modification catch up would ever be helpful for me compared to what progressing forward with simulator development. It is like that with all the stuff my detractors say. Someone starts saying things they have no way of knowing about and are very wrong. Then the other detractors say repeat it like it was truth. The brainless Sheeple are so gullible. I guess when you back a functioning brain you are easily led astray from the truth by people that can't possibly know the truth.

 

[ZenKinG]

I guess you think the dealer doesn't have to handle your ID if you place it face down? He just use his x-ray vision. That is probably the way they are cheating you. Dealers can see the next card by looking at its back with Z-ray vision. You guys talking about my ego are ridiculously lacking logic. I post many posts that I know are controversial and will have me the focus of attack. If I cared about ego I would only post things that would be lauded by the masses. Clearly you lack the ability to make logical conclusions for yourself. One idiot makes an idiotic conclusion and all the other idiots pick it up without even thinking it through.

I am constantly getting laughs about how illogical their conclusions are and how much they are a polar opposite of the truth. I even had a very respected poster offer to do sims for me. I thanked him and sent him lots of sim data showing what I could do so far and what I still need help doing. He apologized, saying it is obvious you have been simming your system for years. He said he was sorry he listened to all the people that can't know the truth rather than the only one that knows the truth. He didn't think his playing simulator modification catch up would ever be helpful for me compared to what progressing forward with simulator development. It is like that with all the stuff my detractors say. Someone starts saying things they have no way of knowing about and are very wrong. Then the other detractors say repeat it like it was truth. The brainless Sheeple are so gullible. I guess when you back a functioning brain you are easily led astray from the truth by people that can't possibly know the truth.

Out of the all people, im the last one anyone can call a sheep. I think for myself not just in blackjack but everything in the world. I take peoples 'professional' opinions always with a grain of salt and think criticially about the subject at hand before ever making my conclusion. I'm the last person that is simply a sheep follower. If you have been following my posts over the years, you would know that, so I dont need you to wrongly assume shit about my character.

You simply have reading comprehension issues or you simply listen to reply rather than listening to understand, which is a major problem in society today. Everyone is so quick to give their voice or opinion on the subject rather than just trying to listen what someone is saying. If you read my post, i acknowledged the fact that their are casinos that have great camera footage NOT just at the cage, but NOT all of them do, whoch is why I said what I said about being careful at the cage. For you to say ALL of the casinos have great cameras above the table is laughable and erroneous. Watching a dealer move her hands in a waving motion reading a font as small as something on a driver's license for 2 seconds is very different than your argument of them watching for dealer theft. Once again, you just like to argue or yoh simply have poor reading comprehension.

 

[Dummy]

For you to say ALL of the casinos have great cameras above the table is laughable and erroneous.

I thought you read and comprehended posts. Did I say ALL casinos do anything? No, and thank you for proving my other point with one post.

The cameras primary function at the table is to watch the dealer's hands. The biggest threat to the casino is not APs. It is employee theft. If you think they don't get a great view on the primary camera for the table of anything the dealer handles you don't understand what casinos priorities are for protecting their games. Dealer theft is THE primary concern of surveillance when it comes to game protection.

The idea that a casino needs ID to get your identity in this information age is laughable. I know you are in the black books so they already have your name associated with your picture from a casino you were warned not to play in Pa. They are sweaty as hell and black book everyone they back off. Even without that slam dunk the casino can get the identity of anyone through numerous means if they want it bad enough. I won't list them here because I don't want to help the casinos that don't know how to do this. Most APs know this to be true. They just hope that playing unrated will get them more time before a BO. Certainly providing ID will cause many to be bounced very quickly. Few are naive enough to think that not giving the ID is a foolproof way to protect your identity. They just hope the casino won't want to ID them bad enough to do the work required to get it with the means at their disposal in this high tech age.