# total beginner on blackjack and counting

#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
Hi,

just recently started researching and watching youtube videos on Blackjack and have become intrigued by the card counting element and see it as stimulating and a challenge { especially in these lockdown times }

i have looked at the HI-lo system and the Kiss 2 system also,,,,,,

with regards to the HI- LO system i have thought about classing Zero as 100 and go up and down in increments of 10 rather than saying in my mind all the time + 1 and - 1,,,, example 3 x +1 cards will take me to 130 and then 2 x - 1 will drop me back down to 110 ,,,,,, so as an example A count of 170 = a + 7 ,,,, this seems to be simpler and quicker maths to me - does this sound like something I can use or should I stick to the original formula??

any info appreciated

thanks

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#### DSchles

##### Well-Known Member
Stick to the original formula! Yours is an unusual proposal I've never heard before. But don't rush to Hi-Lo before you have learned basic strategy perfectly.

Don

#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
DSchles said:
Stick to the original formula! Yours is an unusual proposal I've never heard before. But don't rush to Hi-Lo before you have learned basic strategy perfectly.

Don
thanks for quick response and advice - yes i will start off just playing basic strategy and just try to be aware of what cards have been dealt without actual counting,

I am UK based - our casinos are still closed but i can play online for as low as a £1 bet

in your experience when i start to count should i use the '' Kiss 2'' system first? - i read somewhere its aimed more at beginners?

again any info most appreciated

#### BoSox

##### Well-Known Member
X Excalibur X said:
thanks for quick response and advice - yes i will start off just playing basic strategy and just try to be aware of what cards have been dealt without actual counting,

I am UK based - our casinos are still closed but i can play online for as low as a £1 bet
Better be careful that you use the correct basic strategy for the rules that you are playing.

#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
BoSox said:
Better be careful that you use the correct basic strategy for the rules that you are playing.
thanks

online they appear to be using 4-8 deck shoes - i have a chart for that - is that what you mean

#### DSchles

##### Well-Known Member
X Excalibur X said:
thanks

online they appear to be using 4-8 deck shoes - i have a chart for that - is that what you mean
Yes, but what are ALL the rules? Be as specific as possible. ENHC? H17? DAS? LS?

Don

#### BoSox

##### Well-Known Member
X Excalibur X said:
online they appear to be using 4-8 deck shoes - i have a chart for that - is that what you mean
Does the dealer stand on soft 17 or hit? Can you re-split your hand if so how many times? Can you double after a split or not? Are you able to late surrender your hand for half your money back? Does your blackjack pay 6to5 or 3to2? Does your game have no hole card play? There are different variations of the correct basic strategy based on the rules of the game that you are playing against.

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#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
hi again - just checked a £3 game ,,,, this is main rules ,,,,,blackjack pays 3/2 ,,,,,, dealer stands on a 17 and draws to a 16 ,,,, no double after splitting ,,,, 8 deck shoe

#### DSchles

##### Well-Known Member
X Excalibur X said:
hi again - just checked a £3 game ,,,, this is main rules ,,,,,blackjack pays 3/2 ,,,,,, dealer stands on a 17 and draws to a 16 ,,,, no double after splitting ,,,, 8 deck shoe

Dealer ALWAYS stands on a hard 17. The question is whether he stands on ALL 17s (hard and soft). Which is it? It matters for which BS you learn. NDAS also matters and is, obviously, not good. Can you resplit pairs? Is it no hole card? If so, does the dealer win all (your doubles or splits) in he has a natural?

I understand that you're a beginner, but we can't give you advice about a game until we know precisely what ALL the rules are. So far, this game is quite dreadful.

Don

#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
hi - this is the rules straight off their page

• played with 8 decks
• dealer always stands on soft 17
• double down only after 2 initial cards
• no double down after split
• split initial cards of equal value
• only 1 split per hand
• single card dealt to each split ace
• insurance offered when dealer shows an ace
• blackjack pays 3 to 2
• insurance plays 2 to 1
• push game when hands tie
# no mention of the ' no hole card'' but dealer is only checking this after all players action had finished

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#### Cookingwithcards

##### Active Member
I will offer my advice, even though I'm new, and you have 2 people answering, both of whom have more experience than I can ever hope to have! That being said.....with having no surrender option, and NDAS, it doesn't sound like a good game and I would keep searching.

#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
Cookingwithcards said:
I will offer my advice, even though I'm new, and you have 2 people answering, both of whom have more experience than I can ever hope to have! That being said.....with having no surrender option, and NDAS, it doesn't sound like a good game and I would keep searching.
thanks for reply - i have only been looking at blackjack last 2 days so i know nothing - i was only contemplating a low bet game online as all our casinos are closed - UK - i have ordered some blackjack books and will get some more reading done

all the best

#### DSchles

##### Well-Known Member
X Excalibur X said:
hi - this is the rules straight off their page

• played with 8 decks
• dealer always stands on soft 17
• double down only after 2 initial cards
• no double down after split
• split initial cards of equal value
• only 1 split per hand
• single card dealt to each split ace
• insurance offered when dealer shows an ace
• blackjack pays 3 to 2
• insurance plays 2 to 1
• push game when hands tie
# no mention of the ' no hole card'' but dealer is only checking this after all players action had finished
That's what we needed. Sadly, the game sucks. Play for fun and experience if you like, but not for serious money. Find the correct BS right here in the BS Engine.

Don

#### Counting_Is_Fun

##### Well-Known Member
X Excalibur X said:
Hi,

just recently started researching and watching youtube videos on Blackjack and have become intrigued by the card counting element and see it as stimulating and a challenge { especially in these lockdown times }

i have looked at the HI-lo system and the Kiss 2 system also,,,,,,

with regards to the HI- LO system i have thought about classing Zero as 100 and go up and down in increments of 10 rather than saying in my mind all the time + 1 and - 1,,,, example 3 x +1 cards will take me to 130 and then 2 x - 1 will drop me back down to 110 ,,,,,, so as an example A count of 170 = a + 7 ,,,, this seems to be simpler and quicker maths to me - does this sound like something I can use or should I stick to the original formula??

any info appreciated

thanks
Stick to what others that came before you have already proved successful. That whole wheel thing.
If you truly don't like handling negative numbers...then I know people that call "zero" "20" and start with that. It basically eliminates negative numbers which some people prefer.

#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
Counting_Is_Fun said:
Stick to what others that came before you have already proved successful. That whole wheel thing.
If you truly don't like handling negative numbers...then I know people that call "zero" "20" and start with that. It basically eliminates negative numbers which some people prefer.

#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
DSchles said:
That's what we needed. Sadly, the game sucks. Play for fun and experience if you like, but not for serious money. Find the correct BS right here in the BS Engine.

Don
thanks again Don

yes i wil get some reading and practice done before even attempting a low bet game

{ maybe the online games switched rules in their favour after casinos closed?? }

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#### beating vegas

##### Well-Known Member
X Excalibur X said:
Hi,

just recently started researching and watching youtube videos on Blackjack and have become intrigued by the card counting element and see it as stimulating and a challenge { especially in these lockdown times }

i have looked at the HI-lo system and the Kiss 2 system also,,,,,,

with regards to the HI- LO system i have thought about classing Zero as 100 and go up and down in increments of 10 rather than saying in my mind all the time + 1 and - 1,,,, example 3 x +1 cards will take me to 130 and then 2 x - 1 will drop me back down to 110 ,,,,,, so as an example A count of 170 = a + 7 ,,,, this seems to be simpler and quicker maths to me - does this sound like something I can use or should I stick to the original formula??

any info appreciated

thanks
High low. It’s a easy count and effective.
You can expand to other skills while not having to worry about getting confused.

You also can play more time with out getting fatigued.

#### X Excalibur X

##### Member
beating vegas said:
High low. It’s a easy count and effective.
You can expand to other skills while not having to worry about getting confused.

You also can play more time with out getting fatigued.
Hi - thanks for reply - Casinos are still closed in the UK so no chance yet to have my first game and practice Basic stategy - Been practising Renzeys Kiss count 1 for now and seem to have this nailed!

Coincidently on Page 198 of Renzeys Blackjack Bluebook 2 - there is a ''100 Counting Base'' which was my question when i kick started this forum question - Spooky

#### BJgenius007

##### Well-Known Member
X Excalibur X said:
hi - this is the rules straight off their page

• played with 8 decks
• dealer always stands on soft 17
• double down only after 2 initial cards
• no double down after split
• split initial cards of equal value
• only 1 split per hand
• single card dealt to each split ace
• insurance offered when dealer shows an ace
• blackjack pays 3 to 2
• insurance plays 2 to 1
• push game when hands tie
# no mention of the ' no hole card'' but dealer is only checking this after all players action had finished
No double down after split rule will kill you. And it is a very unusual rule. To make even counters cannot beat the game.

#### DSchles

##### Well-Known Member
BJgenius007 said:
No double down after split rule will kill you. And it is a very unusual rule. To make even counters cannot beat the game.
Well, that's not quite true. DAS is an important rule, and you should always seek games that feature it. But, under most circumstances, it won't make it such that counters can no longer beat the game. They will simply win less.

Don