Watch Out Bunny!

[StandardDeviant]

"I'll be scared later. Right now I'm too mad." - Bugs Bunny

As my understanding of the game increases, I have evolved from a play all style to a wong out style of play. This has been better for my BR, but it still leaves me in lengthy playing situations where I am making minimum bets waiting for the count to improve.

Last night I was rereading Chap. 2 of BJA, and in there DS advocates wonging in at TC+1. He says that making a bunch of small waiting bets at low counts followed by big bets at high counts (as one does in the play all or wong out styles) is suicidal. I know this is true, and it's part of the reason I went to a wong out mode, but wong out doesn't really solve the problem.

I went to bed thinking that maybe wonging in is better than wonging out, but with the wong in style of play, I feel I'll still be quite obvious as I stand there like a vulture hanging over the table waiting for a high count.

So there seems to be a dilemma here. Any systematic variation in playing style as the count moves from low to high seems to set us up for discovery at some point. So we throw in some bonehead play as camo, and we keep our playing sessions short, but if we play at one casino long enough, i.e., a dozen shoes at low count, a few shoes at high count, we've left our trail. It seems unavoidable in single-person play.

I live today in the shadows of low-stakes play, where no one probably gives a damn. But when I someday move up to the shiny lights of the high-limit room, it seems I'll get picked off faster than a bunny in the shooting gallery at my local county fair.

Eh, what's up, doc?

 

[psyduck]

I am in the same situation and am thinking the same thing. This is a hard to solve problem when you only have one casino to go to. Both Wonging in and out have obvious signs to tell that you are counting.

 

[StandardDeviant]

A little of both?

I'm thinking a bit of both may be the best answer. That would improve expectation, and reduce the amount of time spent placing waiting bets.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

If it's heat you're worried about, the less time you spend at the table the better. One nice heat-deflection feature of Wonging in is that the cameras are watching the tables- their priority is watching the bets, the cards, and the dealers. People standing around the casino watching are more interesting to security than surveillance, and while surveillance may know little about counting security knows nothing at all. So unless there is a suspected counter at the table already they don't know what the count is when you sit down in the middle of a shoe. Maybe the best approach for you is to Wong in and not Wong out, just enter at TC =+1, play until they shuffle and leave.

 

[daddybo]

If it's heat you're worried about, the less time you spend at the table the better. One nice heat-deflection feature of Wonging in is that the cameras are watching the tables- their priority is watching the bets, the cards, and the dealers. People standing around the casino watching are more interesting to security than surveillance, and while surveillance may know little about counting security knows nothing at all. So unless there is a suspected counter at the table already they don't know what the count is when you sit down in the middle of a shoe. Maybe the best approach for you is to Wong in and not Wong out, just enter at TC =+1, play until they shuffle and leave.

Not absolutley true.... depends on if they know you or not. I have been "backed off" just standing close to the table and not playing. I think the words were "security freaks out everytime you walk by a table" :laugh:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Not absolutley true.... depends on if they know you or not. I have been "backed off" just standing close to the table and not playing. I think the words were "security freaks out everytime you walk by a table" :laugh:

That can be security-risk heat and not AP heat, sometimes. I've had that happen to me when totally unknown in a casino, just walking in and examining their shuffle. Security is interested in bystanders ripping off or pestering seated players. Or maybe they thought I was a hooker.

 

[daddybo]

That can be security-risk heat and not AP heat, sometimes. I've had that happen to me when totally unknown in a casino, just walking in and examining their shuffle. Security is interested in bystanders ripping off or pestering seated players. Or maybe they thought I was a hooker.

I know I thought your were a hooker...:laugh:.. In my case it may have been the eyepatch and sabre! :eyepatch:

 

[moo321]

"I'll be scared later. Right now I'm too mad." - Bugs Bunny

As my understanding of the game increases, I have evolved from a play all style to a wong out style of play. This has been better for my BR, but it still leaves me in lengthy playing situations where I am making minimum bets waiting for the count to improve.

Last night I was rereading Chap. 2 of BJA, and in there DS advocates wonging in at TC+1. He says that making a bunch of small waiting bets at low counts followed by big bets at high counts (as one does in the play all or wong out styles) is suicidal. I know this is true, and it's part of the reason I went to a wong out mode, but wong out doesn't really solve the problem.

I went to bed thinking that maybe wonging in is better than wonging out, but with the wong in style of play, I feel I'll still be quite obvious as I stand there like a vulture hanging over the table waiting for a high count.

So there seems to be a dilemma here. Any systematic variation in playing style as the count moves from low to high seems to set us up for discovery at some point. So we throw in some bonehead play as camo, and we keep our playing sessions short, but if we play at one casino long enough, i.e., a dozen shoes at low count, a few shoes at high count, we've left our trail. It seems unavoidable in single-person play.

I live today in the shadows of low-stakes play, where no one probably gives a damn. But when I someday move up to the shiny lights of the high-limit room, it seems I'll get picked off faster than a bunny in the shooting gallery at my local county fair.

Eh, what's up, doc?

Don't use camo. Just play at enough places that you'll never get barred. If you're a part-timer, and travel to different places, you should be able to not have to play the same shift at a casino more than, say, 3 times a year.

 

[StandardDeviant]

Just play at enough places that you'll never get barred. If you're a part-timer, and travel to different places, you should be able to not have to play the same shift at a casino more than, say, 3 times a year.

I'm trying to come up with a strategy for working the same (few) places over an extended period of time - about 1 or 2 times per month.

 

[blackchipjim]

alas poor yoric'

I wouldn't really worry too much about the wong out thing. I know I will catch heat for the statement but heck. I'm in the same game where there is not many places to play so I play where I can. The table min is the key to viability and longevity. I lay and wait,hit and run when I can but the wong out is my mainstay. The waiting bets are a pain but the money bets can make up for the wait. Croweded casinos are the best for wong in of course but the dead times and heads up can prove fruitful. Come on and let me hear it.

 

[StandardDeviant]

... I lay and wait,hit and run when I can but the wong out is my mainstay. ... Croweded casinos are the best for wong in of course but the dead times and heads up can prove fruitful.

This is pretty much how I think about it too. I am busy perfecting my approach to the wong out maneuver.

I find wonging in more difficult. When the casino is empty and it's easy to move in, backcounting is so obvious. In crowded casinos where I wouldn't stand out, it's hard to get a seat when the count is right. I can play behind someone, but then I have to trust that they make the right play when the big money is on the felt.

 

[ycming]

Never back another person ..... And i love to play heads up just talking alot of rubbish to the dealer

But i play in the uk is whole lot difference here and 20 mins drive i have 4 casino i can visit and i play in each one for like 6 hours + . The downside is 6d and no peek.

Ming

 

[shiznites]

Simply put, its ALOT easier to wong out then wong in. After a loss, "Goddamn this table sucks!" get up and walk away.

Blackjack Attack shows the differences for Wonging and play-all stats and the numbers are significant indeed.

Unfortunately, perfect Wonging is near impossible (for me at least) but that doesn't mean you HAVE to play-all. Like I said, Wonging out is pretty easy.

 

[flyingwind]

Wonging out in the high-limit room

This is an old thread, but never the less, I figured I'd continue this rather than start a new thread.

I'm also finding that wonging out is difficult. In low stakes games, it's easy. I don't care about cover and I don't think the house cares either, so I just wong out whenever.

However, I don't feel that I'm wonging out smoothly in the high-limit room. As someone suggested, it's very easy to simply get up after a loss and yell this shoe stinks! But, how often can you pull this in the high-limit room playing heads-up? In some high limit rooms, there're only 2 or 3 tables, so wonging out means you're just walking around to the other side of the pit and sitting down. If all two or three tables are bad, then you've just used the same excuse three times in front of the same pit and dealer staff. Wonging in is usually not possible due to no mid shoe entry.

I've played through negative shoes for cover, but I don't want to do that all the time.

I'm definitely trying to refine my high-limit game but it's tough to develop the right act.

Any suggestions to more smoothly wong out in the high-limit room?

 

[sagefr0g]

This is an old thread, but never the less, I figured I'd continue this rather than start a new thread.

I'm also finding that wonging out is difficult. In low stakes games, it's easy. I don't care about cover and I don't think the house cares either, so I just wong out whenever.

However, I don't feel that I'm wonging out smoothly in the high-limit room. As someone suggested, it's very easy to simply get up after a loss and yell this shoe stinks! But, how often can you pull this in the high-limit room playing heads-up? In some high limit rooms, there're only 2 or 3 tables, so wonging out means you're just walking around to the other side of the pit and sitting down. If all two or three tables are bad, then you've just used the same excuse three times in front of the same pit and dealer staff. Wonging in is usually not possible due to no mid shoe entry.

I've played through negative shoes for cover, but I don't want to do that all the time.

I'm definitely trying to refine my high-limit game but it's tough to develop the right act.

Any suggestions to more smoothly wong out in the high-limit room?

you probably wont like this or it may just not fit what you want to do, but you could just not come back and either go to another joint or do something else.
then maybe come back, but come back way later, hours later perhaps.

 

[kewljason]

That's the problem with the high limit room. It's a trade off. Better rules and conditions vs more scrutiny. You definately can't get a way with some of the things that you can on the main floor.

 

[Jack_Black]

first off, I would like to state that BJ APs are always always way too paranoid. Possibly because the subject of APing is fairly intellectual involving college level prob. and stats. This seems to catch the interests of the fair well to do, clean shaven, everything in life is a fair handshake, happy go, lucky person. However, the other extremely important aspect that has to be understood and mastered, is the art of grifting. Hustling, street smarts, seems to be nil and void in this demographic. You have to learn the ways of the streets, or in this case, the casino. You have to really be able to read people to find the limits of a particular casino. Maybe what your doing is completely fine, and the pit could care less. Or maybe what your doing is suspicious. I don't know, I've never seen your demeanor, and I didn't see the pits reaction to you getting up to wong out. what I can tell you is that you need to start learning how to read reactions. "lie to me" is a great show on FOX that will help you. watch it and learn.

here's an example that happened to me last week. This store had a $100 max on tables. I won $900 in the first hour. Every dealer I had was chatty, and cheery when I first showed up, by the second hour, everyone's demeanor changed. no jokes, no stories, nothing. One dealer yelled out "Blackjack on max bet!" Out of the corner of my eye, the PBs were looking at me. Also, the pen. was 66% on DD when I first came in, by the second hour, almost everyone was dealing 50%. That told me, the gig is up. Muevelo amigo!

There has always been a war of book smarts vs. street smarts. I'm sure grifters don't have the math know how to optimize their game, but they have the street smarts to have longevity. Likewise, book smart people, ie site members, can optimize their game, but spend too much worrying about getting caught, and as a result will get caught. If PBs were policemen, you'd all be going to jail.

Learn the ways of the street.