ZenGrifter interview question

[UncrownedKing]

In the ZenGrifter interview on the site, he mentions something about how ASM's are beatable by understanding how they work. Is it still possible? Are they still somewhat the same as the older models mentioned in the interview(maybe instead of having 3 cycles, they are just broke down into smaller cycles like say 8 or 9?)?

 

[Mimosine]

In the ZenGrifter interview on the site, he mentions something about how ASM's are beatable by understanding how they work. Is it still possible? Are they still somewhat the same as the older models mentioned in the interview(maybe instead of having 3 cycles, they are just broke down into smaller cycles like say 8 or 9?)?

some people have looked at the patents....

if you can understand the algorithm behind the shuffle then, just like shuffle tracking you could potentially do some damage against these things, but this is by no means a small endeavor that you could devote a few hours a week to. this would require a lot of effort.

first is the shuffle random, or is it based on a set routine (similar to riffle X 3 strip x 1). If it is random, how is the random number generated?

this is as far as i can take this question.

 

[UncrownedKing]

Interesting. I didn't want to devote THAT much time to it. Maybe a couple of hours as you stated.

 

[shadroch]

Interesting. I didn't want to devote THAT much time to it. Maybe a couple of hours as you stated.

I always wanted to play golf but didn't feel like devoting a whole afternoon to learning the game well.

 

[UncrownedKing]

I always wanted to play golf but didn't feel like devoting a whole afternoon to learning the game well.

I certainly am devoting a lot of my time to learn how to be an AP at BJ and counting cards and such. I was saying that the devotion to ASM would not pay as much as counting cards from hand shuffled games.

 

[Pro21]

If you learn to beat CSMs it will pay far more than card counting ever could.

One of the things pros look for is the ability to play without heat or being thrown out. When you learn to do things other than count the edge usually goes way up, and the heat way down. Casino people have learned to recognize card counting. If you don't look like a card counter they pretty much leave you alone until you win a lot of money. A major part of advantage play is learning to disguise your wins.

 

[kewljason]

I always wanted to play golf but didn't feel like devoting a whole afternoon to learning the game well.

I have devoted many afternoons trying to learn to play the game of golf well. My golf scores indicate that so far it has eluded me.

 

[UncrownedKing]

Well has anyone had an experience with beating a ASM(besides the one Zengrifter described in his interview)?

 

[moo321]

Well has anyone had an experience with beating a ASM(besides the one Zengrifter described in his interview)?

If they do, I hope they won't go into detail here.

 

[UncrownedKing]

If they do, I hope they won't go into detail here.

I'm not asking how or describe the experience. I was merely asking if anyone has experience with it.

 

[Pro21]

Of course.

My first experience was with the 2 deck CSMs that Steve Wynn invented and put in the Mirage back in the 90s. They were a gold mine until Wong found out about them and burned the game by posting about it.

 

[UncrownedKing]

What about the newer models? I've seen two very contradicting sides to this topic on just these forums and wanted to know if in-fact they can be exploited(trying not to give too much info)? Besides tampering with them or learning the algorithms(from what I read is impossible).

 

[Pro21]

This may sound flip, but it is a serious piece of advice. Just assume that all games in the casino can be beaten if you work hard enough. You may not always find the answer, but if you spend your time thinking it is possible it will sometimes make you a lot of money.

 

[UncrownedKing]

If anyone has any "inside" or additional info they can pm me. I will start researching these and will probably end up playing these for a short while to see what I can discover.

 

[EasyRhino]

My first experience was with the 2 deck CSMs that Steve Wynn invented and put in the Mirage back in the 90s. They were a gold mine until Wong found out about them and burned the game by posting about it.

How did they get beat? Is it dead enough it can be posted about?

 

[UncrownedKing]

Go read the ZG interview, he talks about this in there.

 

[zengrifter]

The Wynn models were THREE deck and the year was 1987 GNugget, pre-Mirage. zg

Ps - No the newer models are not beatable in the same way, except the dwindling numbers of FAK-2 and FAK-1 machines.

 

[Pro21]

If anyone has any "inside" or additional info they can pm me. I will start researching these and will probably end up playing these for a short while to see what I can discover.

Forget trying to go play it to figure anything out. The first step is to buy one.

 

[UncrownedKing]

No the newer models are not beatable in the same way, except the dwindling numbers of FAK-2 and FAK-1 machines.

I realize this. But maybe in a different way they can be beatable. Maybe?

 

[Mimosine]

Forget trying to go play it to figure anything out. The first step is to buy one.

This is honestly the only plausible approach. Everything else would be cloak and dagger crap trying to find the original programmer, or a repair/service person and trying to get info out.

the best is to disassemble one/reverse engineer/experiment with one etc.

How much do they cost $10k? Also i'm sure you can't just walk in off the street and buy one either.

Maybe you could *steal* one. :eyepatch: