Economics of $1 Blackjack

zoomie

Well-Known Member
#1
Idle curiosity made me do some calculations about $1 BJ, which is all the rage in AC now. Assuming 5 players per table, a $0.25 ante per hand, an average bet of $1.50, 50 rounds per hour, 2% HE, I get a total revenue number of $70.00 hourly for the house, of which only $7.50 is betting wins, with the $62.50 balance being from the ante. Overall HE is nearly 19% :flame:

Using the same figures for a $10 min table, but assuming an average bet of $12, I get hourly revenue of only $60.00. No wonder that, in stores that tend toward a lower min anyway, the $1 game is so popular with management. :cry: (At a $15 table with a $17 average bet, revenue is $85 hourly, so the more upscale stores should have no interest in $1 BJ.)

Meanwhile, the poor ploppies are actually paying slightly more per hour to play $1 BJ than they would - as a group - at the $10 table (but their individual variance is lower).
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#2
zoomie said:
Idle curiosity made me do some calculations about $1 BJ, which is all the rage in AC now. Assuming 5 players per table, a $0.25 ante per hand, an average bet of $1.50, 50 rounds per hour, 2% HE, I get a total revenue number of $70.00 hourly for the house, of which only $7.50 is betting wins, with the $62.50 balance being from the ante. Overall HE is nearly 19% :flame:

Using the same figures for a $10 min table, but assuming an average bet of $12, I get hourly revenue of only $60.00. No wonder that, in stores that tend toward a lower min anyway, the $1 game is so popular with management. :cry: (At a $15 table with a $17 average bet, revenue is $85 hourly, so the more upscale stores should have no interest in $1 BJ.)

Meanwhile, the poor ploppies are actually paying slightly more per hour to play $1 BJ than they would - as a group - at the $10 table (but their individual variance is lower).

I have not played, nor even watched this game as I have zero interest in it, but it would seem to me that just the act of collecting quarters after every hands takes some time. Even these couple of seconds each round will add up and reduce the number of rounds per hour which I don't see reflected in your analysis. :confused:
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#3
Do they collect the ante on every hand or just the losing ones? In any event, it won't slow the game anything like the RM or LL games.
 

zoomie

Well-Known Member
#4
shadroch said:
Do they collect the ante on every hand or just the losing ones? In any event, it won't slow the game anything like the RM or LL games.
My analysis assumes that the ante is collected for every hand, but I haven't confirmed that. (Like Kewljason says, who cares?) I'll check. Assuming so, I agree with Shad that picking up quarters is faster than calculating payouts on successful side bets, plus the assumption of only 50 rounds per hour may be conservative - I've seen 60 used as often, and that would increase the hourly absolute advantage to the house of the $1 table over the $10 table.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#5
I have seen the game also...although not in AC....Its quite popular.....It's a 1 to 10 dollar table.. you can bet 1 to 5 $ and are charged a .25 cent ante every hand. Your not allowed to
bet 6, 7,8,or 9 $.... The ten dollar bet is free, no ante....
I have watched the game ......Here's the problem where i have seen it.. Usually it ends up a party at the table.........they get a very minimal amount of hands...I dont have a number..
I've asked a few dealers what they think about it....Most roll their eye's. One said its nice for people learning the game. Another says a whole shift netted them 11 F***ing dollars...:laugh::laugh:

Machinist
 

Southpaw

Well-Known Member
#6
shadroch said:
Do they collect the ante on every hand or just the losing ones? In any event, it won't slow the game anything like the RM or LL games.
It is quite annoying to be at a table playing with a bunch of ploppies who place strange combinations of 1 dollar and 50 cent chips on the royal match on every hand. Really slows down the game. Happened a few times to me today.

SP
 

Mewtwo

Well-Known Member
#7
Southpaw said:
It is quite annoying to be at a table playing with a bunch of ploppies who place strange combinations of 1 dollar and 50 cent chips on the royal match on every hand. Really slows down the game. Happened a few times to me today.

SP
As a novice counter, the time it takes them to resolve and collect LL bets has given me the extra few seconds to make sure I have the count right. If I were as experienced as most of you here it wouldn't be needed and I'd want more hands per hour.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#8
Mewtwo said:
As a novice counter, the time it takes them to resolve and collect LL bets has given me the extra few seconds to make sure I have the count right. If I were as experienced as most of you here it wouldn't be needed and I'd want more hands per hour.

Counters want more hands an hour, everyone knows that. So it follows that the guy sitting at a full table with everyone else betting the RM couldn't be a counter, no? Especially since he gets up from the table midshoe a few times an hour for a smoke break.:cat:
 

bigplayer

Well-Known Member
#9
zoomie said:
Idle curiosity made me do some calculations about $1 BJ, which is all the rage in AC now. Assuming 5 players per table, a $0.25 ante per hand, an average bet of $1.50, 50 rounds per hour, 2% HE, I get a total revenue number of $70.00 hourly for the house, of which only $7.50 is betting wins, with the $62.50 balance being from the ante. Overall HE is nearly 19% :flame:

Using the same figures for a $10 min table, but assuming an average bet of $12, I get hourly revenue of only $60.00. No wonder that, in stores that tend toward a lower min anyway, the $1 game is so popular with management. :cry: (At a $15 table with a $17 average bet, revenue is $85 hourly, so the more upscale stores should have no interest in $1 BJ.)

Meanwhile, the poor ploppies are actually paying slightly more per hour to play $1 BJ than they would - as a group - at the $10 table (but their individual variance is lower).
Casinos don't make enough at $1 blackjack even to pay the dealer not to mention drink comps. It's a loss leader and the casino hopes those players will graduate to world class suckers.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#10
bigplayer said:
Casinos don't make enough at $1 blackjack even to pay the dealer not to mention drink comps. It's a loss leader and the casino hopes those players will graduate to world class suckers.
How can you say that in the face of the math? Five players at 50 hands an hour brings in $62.50 an hour in antes alone.
 

pit15

Well-Known Member
#11
shadroch said:
How can you say that in the face of the math? Five players at 50 hands an hour brings in $62.50 an hour in antes alone.
50 hands an hour, yeah right.

A table filled with morons, constant check changes to change reds for whites, whites for QUARTERS, dealers needing to remind people to put up the quarter, dealers forgetting to collect the antes, people probably asking all kinds of dumb questions.

Though, the lowered variance is beneficial for the house. Hardly anybody will walk away a winner from this game. People tapping out quick is not beneficial for the house.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#12
pit15 said:
50 hands an hour, yeah right.

A table filled with morons, constant check changes to change reds for whites, whites for QUARTERS, dealers needing to remind people to put up the quarter, dealers forgetting to collect the antes, people probably asking all kinds of dumb questions.

Though, the lowered variance is beneficial for the house. Hardly anybody will walk away a winner from this game. People tapping out quick is not beneficial for the house.
Dumb players somehow turn dealers dumb? Now I've heard everything.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#13
shadroch said:
Dumb players somehow turn dealers dumb? Now I've heard everything.
What???? huh......Pit15 is exactly correct.........i watched that exact scenerio 3 weeks ago.....Who was at this table..... a group of young black gentlemen...having a great time in their own way.......
Security was close by.......
Shad ??? I dont see where he was talking about dumb dealers......did i miss that??

Machinist
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#14
Machinist said:
What???? huh......Pit15 is exactly correct.........i watched that exact scenerio 3 weeks ago.....Who was at this table..... a group of young black gentlemen...having a great time in their own way.......
Security was close by.......
Shad ??? I dont see where he was talking about dumb dealers......did i miss that??

Machinist
.....dealers forgetting to collect antes....
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#16
Well i dont know about dealers being dumb...maybe nieve,,,maybe really f**king bored with their job.....I couldnt imagine putting up with a table full of drunk, maybe happy maybe sad,,,,skitzo....wierdos....all types .................day after groundhog day......
Plus they have to deal all these different games.......So yea some are no doubt dumb...
I do feel sorry for some of the dealers....poor bastrds got sucked into the casino world..uugghhh
Machinist
 

metronome

Well-Known Member
#17
Did not read thru the whole thread.
But "Royal Match" and "Bet The Set" are surely hated by dealers. It really screws them out of potential tokes.
And then there are the plops who put out a $20.00 bet w/ a $20.00 royal match........ oh lord.
As far as ante BJ, oh well... never mind.
 

zoomie

Well-Known Member
#19
shadroch said:
Do they collect the ante on every hand or just the losing ones? In any event, it won't slow the game anything like the RM or LL games.
I have now confirmed that (at one AC store at least) the house collects the ante on every hand no matter the result, even a push. Also noticed that the $1 felt has 7 spots instead of 6, which could slow things a bit.
 

pit15

Well-Known Member
#20
metronome said:
Did not read thru the whole thread.
But "Royal Match" and "Bet The Set" are surely hated by dealers. It really screws them out of potential tokes.
And then there are the plops who put out a $20.00 bet w/ a $20.00 royal match........ oh lord.
As far as ante BJ, oh well... never mind.
Yeah, by far. Most plops will give the $2.50 chip to the dealer, but on the sucker bet tables they'll play the sucker bet (for themself) instead.
 
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