Losing Session?

  • jase

    Losing Session?

    How would one recognize a losing session?

    AFAIK my mentor has taught us discipline. Discipline enough to get up after a winning session. Meaning, If you think you won enough, get up and go home. But when it comes to losing, it’s just a different ball game altogether. We just don’t have the know how to get up and go home drift and keeping in mind, perhaps, we COULD somehow make up after couple of more hands.

    There is one way to understand when we are losing. Set a target! Example, if your BR is $1000 you set a target of about $100. If you find you’re losing down to $100. Stop and get up! Walk away and live to fight another day.

    This is precisely what any novice player needs to do. Any other inputs from veteran players could be a real life saver for me and other novice players.

    Would be nice if you all can share your experiences.

    Thanks
    Jase

  • AussiePlayer

     

    Quote: jase said:
    How would one recognize a losing session?

    A losing session is one where you leave the casino with less money than you started with.

    Think longer picture mate; Life is one long session!

  • FLASH1296

     

    Applying a label to a session such as winning, losing, even … is of no purpose whatsoever.

  • Shoofly

     

    Quote: jase said:
    How would one recognize a losing session?

    AFAIK my mentor has taught us discipline. Discipline enough to get up after a winning session. Meaning, If you think you won enough, get up and go home. But when it comes to losing, it’s just a different ball game altogether. We just don’t have the know how to get up and go home drift and keeping in mind, perhaps, we COULD somehow make up after couple of more hands.

    There is one way to understand when we are losing. Set a target! Example, if your BR is $1000 you set a target of about $100. If you find you’re losing down to $100. Stop and get up! Walk away and live to fight another day.

    This is precisely what any novice player needs to do. Any other inputs from veteran players could be a real life saver for me and other novice players.

    Would be nice if you all can share your experiences.
    Thanks
    Jase

    Leave when it is time to leave. Whether you are winning or losing is not a determining factor in this.

  • parsifal

     

    Quote: FLASH1296 said:
    Applying a label to a session such as winning, losing, even … is of no purpose whatsoever.

    I understand exactly where you’re coming from and in theory you’re obviously right – but there’s a limit to how abstract one can/should think to continue making sense in the real world. If, for example, statistics say that a person will have on average a total of 2.5 driving accidents in his lifetime and I’ve already had 3, it doesn’t mean I can drive recklessly knowing that my chances of having another one are slim…

    So, of course, there are no winning/losing/even sessions because a ‘session’ is a name for a totally arbitrary way of sorting time based on factors (night/day/shift/hour etc) to which the game is utterly indifferent. For all you want, you may take half a session off one visit and add it to another to change their winning/losing/even label and it still would make no difference.

    But, as far as-being humans-we are hard-wired to think in certain terms/patterns there is no point eschewing the fact that we will inevitably tend to think, and psychologically react, to your performance in these mundane, theoretically nonsensical, but decidedly ‘human’ terms…

  • FLASH1296

     

    parsifal,

    You said:

    ” … But, as far as-being humans-we are hard-wired to think in certain terms/patterns there is no point eschewing the fact that we will inevitably tend to think, and psychologically react, to your performance in these mundane, theoretically nonsensical, but decidedly ‘human’ terms…”

    It is true that “pattern recognition” was a requisite evolutionary step for earliest humankind to take.

    However, developing an A.P.’s ratiocination that is keyed to logical empirical objective mathematical determinism is essential to success.

    Remaining linked to primitive reflexive “pattern recognition” is a profound handicap that is, at its core, superstitious.

    Watching baccarat and roulette players is a good example of this folly.

    It is stinkin’ thinking’ !

  • tthree

     

    I totally agree lines are arbitrary. If you have a huge BR and have no room to improve your game the is nothing gained from leaving unless your are having a day were you are not playing up to your potential. It is difficult to determine this because you wouldn’t make mistakes if you knew it. For me I am constantly trying to be a better player on each visit (I don’t think I will ever think there is no room for improvement) and my BR is still small, about 1,000 units. For these reasons I bring enough to not run out at the casino and plan to lose no more than a third to a half. If an opportunity arises that I should not walk away from I will lose it all if my luck runs bad. This protects my BR and the next session I will be a better player whether I had an off that day or not. I know many will deny the logic of this but I feel it is very smart at this point in my AP efforts. Fortunately losing sessions have not been much of a factor for me.

  • parsifal

     

    Quote: FLASH1296 said:
    parsifal,

    You said:

    ” … But, as far as-being humans-we are hard-wired to think in certain terms/patterns there is no point eschewing the fact that we will inevitably tend to think, and psychologically react, to your performance in these mundane, theoretically nonsensical, but decidedly ‘human’ terms…”

    It is true that “pattern recognition” was a requisite evolutionary step for earliest humankind to take.

    However, developing an A.P.’s ratiocination that is keyed to logical empirical objective mathematical determinism is essential to success.

    Remaining linked to primitive reflexive “pattern recognition” is a profound handicap that is, at its core, superstitious.

    Watching baccarat and roulette players is a good example of this folly.

    It is stinkin’ thinking’ !

    You are aware of course that a disproportionate number of mathematicians, Godel being the most known case, were eventually driven to insanity (and no less than committed suicide or died in sanatoriums) precisely by their perverse over-attachment to logic and rationalism. ‘Pattern recognition’ and, even more, ‘causality’ should not be so readily dismissed as ‘memetic’ remnants of our evolutionary past.

    I, personally, play like a computer and remain totally unperturbed by fluctuations, heats, emotions, money etc. But I know that there is something fundamentally twisted about that and if it was a choice I would absolutely never wish to deprive human nature from its complexity (that also makes it weak, superstitious etc) for the sake of making humans more advanced calculators and better profit-maximisers.

  • FLASH1296

     

    commentary on the VALUE of losing sessions:

    It is of value to quit after a session with a small loss.

    Doing so, creates a computer display where there are
    numerous losing sessions albeit for trivial amounts.

    When the Pit Boss quickly reviews you recent action,
    he notices a lot of entries in the data base where the
    numbers are red, suggesting a weak player.
    S/he may not have the time or inclination to look more
    closely to see your aggregate results.

    I have been 86’d for failing to have almost no losing sessions.

    Create some. Think more about this. You note that it is a time
    approaching the end of a shift. You are down a few units. You walk.
    Take a break. When you return an hour later a new shift is in place
    and your (hopefully) winning session will look better balanced by a loss.

  • alwayssplitaces

     

    Quote: FLASH1296 said:
    commentary on the VALUE of losing sessions:

    It is of value to quit after a session with a small loss.

    Doing so, creates a computer display where there are
    numerous losing sessions albeit for trivial amounts.

    When the Pit Boss quickly reviews you recent action,
    he notices a lot of entries in the data base where the
    numbers are red, suggesting a weak player.
    S/he may not have the time or inclination to look more
    closely to see your aggregate results.

    I have been 86’d for failing to have almost no losing sessions.

    Create some. Think more about this. You note that it is a time
    approaching the end of a shift. You are down a few units. You walk.
    Take a break. When you return an hour later a new shift is in place
    and your (hopefully) winning session will look better balanced by a loss.

    Ratholing 2x your EV whether you’re up or down will make it look like you’re losing in the long run.

    A stop-win and stop-loss hurt us more than they help us, because the greatest variance is in positive counts. A $100 loss on a $1000 session BR is nothing.

  • jase

     

    Quote: alwayssplitaces said:
    Ratholing 2x your EV whether you’re up or down will make it look like you’re losing in the long run.

    A stop-win and stop-loss hurt us more than they help us, because the greatest variance is in positive counts. A $100 loss on a $1000 session BR is nothing.

    That’s exactly my point. $100 is better than $500. So don’t you think when you’re down $100 we should walk?

    Or are you simply implying that when we start a new session the previous losing session will carry on into the new session?

  • alwayssplitaces

     

    In a high count you’re betting more than $100 a hand. You’re going to win or lose $100+ every hand.

  • FLASH1296

     

    As long as there is an “Eye in the Sky” “ratholing” is a dubious tactic.

  • nicetrades200303

     

    Quote: FLASH1296 said:
    As long as there is an “Eye in the Sky” “ratholing” is a dubious tactic.

    Flash, I ponder over this question, too. Doesn’t surveillance see that you’re ratholing chips and don’t they tell the pit crew what you’re doing?

  • rrwoods

     

    Quote: jase said:
    Or are you simply implying that when we start a new session the previous losing session will carry on into the new session?

    As has been stated before: “Life is one long session”. As far as the math goes, if you’re playing correctly your individual session results don’t matter.

    However humans are not perfect. You will have “off” days, “off” sessions, hell even “off” weeks. If you’re in one of those you probably won’t know it, and having a stop loss might help mitigate that. A session bankroll makes a great stop loss for this purpose.

  • Wookets

     

    Quote: FLASH1296 said:
    As long as there is an “Eye in the Sky” “ratholing” is a dubious tactic.

    Does this hold true if you take your chips with you to the bathroom, and upon your return you only put half of them back on the table?

  • johndoe

     

    Quote: Wookets said:
    Does this hold true if you take your chips with you to the bathroom, and upon your return you only put half of them back on the table?

    I doubt the eye cares at all about ratholing a few green, regardless of where you’re going. Overdo it and the floor might enter in extra winnings for you. Black and up is much more difficult, if not impossible, to rathole. (Depending on the store)

  • FLASH1296

     

    Yes, nicetrades200303, The Eye Sees All !

    BUT this is relative to the stakes one plays.

    The probability of your being observed is directly
    proportional to the stakes being played.

    In most casinos, if you are betting black, it is a near
    certainty, and if betting black it is certain.
    Conversely, if you are betting red, (at a red chipper’s table)
    then there its almost no likelihood that the “Eye” is peering
    down upon you. Unless the Eye has been notified of a possible
    cheating incident, theft, dispute re: payoff error, etc.

  • Gamblor

     

    Quote: Wookets said:
    Does this hold true if you take your chips with you to the bathroom, and upon your return you only put half of them back on the table?

    Yes, this is good. Some chips got lost in your pocket for all they know. I wouldn’t say half though, that might be too noticeable to the pit.

    Once I went on a quick brutal losing streak, and got up to leave. The floor person asked me where all my chips went, and I told them the truth, I lost it So they do take note of your chip stack.

  • PierceNation

     

    Statistics do not have a sense of time. If your going to lose 100 units it matters not whether you stop at 100 or not. Leave when your tired, and don’t even think about the loss, it took me a while to become detached but its better when you are, you make less mistakes

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