# Richard Harvey?

• b

Richard Harvey?

I just heard this guy on a local radio program saying he is a pro.
He was pushing his seminars and books.
He said basic strategy and card counting does not work, but, of course, his methods do?

• Renzey
Quote: b said:
I just heard this guy on a local radio program saying he is a pro.
He was pushing his seminars and books.
He said basic strategy and card counting does not work, but, of course, his methods do?

I met Richard Harvey when he was giving a lecture on his book at a Barnes & Noble book store. I’m reluctant to pass judgment, but I believe he might misunderstand basic probability and how it works. Take this as an opinion from someone who merely heard him pitch his concepts for 45 minutes.

I also read his book, Cutting Edge Blackjack, and it seems to re-enforce that misunderstanding. Still, naggingly interesting to me is his claim of “orbiting hands” on successive shoes. Comments??

• aslan
Quote: Renzey said:
I met Richard Harvey when he was giving a lecture on his book at a Barnes & Noble book store. I’m reluctant to pass judgment, but I believe he might misunderstand basic probability and how it works. Take this as an opinion from someone who merely heard him pitch his concepts for 45 minutes.

I also read his book, Cutting Edge Blackjack, and it seems to re-enforce that misunderstanding. Still, naggingly interesting to me is his claim of “orbiting hands” on successive shoes. Comments??

Could you explain what is meant by orbiting hands on successive shoes?

• sagefr0g

orbiting

Quote: aslan said:
Could you explain what is meant by orbiting hands on successive shoes?

something to do with like say if you get some string of cards (two or three cards), then they show up together again after the pack is shuffled and the shoe is dealt again.
i think Harvey claims this sort of thing can go on and on and on until maybe new cards are introduced, sort of thing.

so i guess the idea may have some relevance for key carding, sequencing, erhh, i really don’t know.

i just happen to have the book and looked the term (orbiting) up in the index.
i tried several times to read the book and couldn’t follow or make sense of a darn thing Harvey was writing about.

• RichardHarvey

Intelligent People Don’t Libel Others Especially If They’re Ignorant of the Fact

To Flash1296: I want to know your identity. I mean my attorney wants to know. And if you don’t come out of your worm hole and reveal what author or web site hawker you are and apologize to me for the libel you posted on this site, you’re going to pay me handsomely for the lies and character assassination you posted. What axe are your grinding? Have I made your books obsolete with my new methods?

And Renzey, I’m shocked that you would be critical without any knowledge of what my books are about. How about reading my books first before you go off half-cocked with your criticisms? “Strings” have nothing to do with my books or methods. Where did you get that from?

How about going to http://www.blackjacktoday.com/BlackjackBasicStrategySucks.htm and http://www.blackjacktoday.com/WhyCardCountingIsBadBlackjack.htm and start there with why the methods you guys love are antiquated, faulty, ineffective and worthless.

I’m a university-trained mathematician and scientist and I’ve done more than 10 years worth of research and produced a system whose methods blow the doors off the old school methods you guys bow down, methods from the early 1950s (Baldwin, McDermott, Cantey & Maisel’s basic strategy dates back to 1953) and the early 1960s (as in Thorp and Dubner’s card counting methods from 1962 and 1963.)

I not only demand respect, I’m here to announce that I am fed up with the libel on the Internet by anonymous trolls who aren’t fit to shine my shoes and I am about to show those who attempt character assassination, libel and spread lies about my books, books they’ve never read, that there are laws in this land that not only protect my work and reputation, but which allow me to go after those who think they can hide behind anonymity on the Internet and commit crimes that are actionable in court. So flash1296 you and your ilk are on notice.

To Renzey and others who should know better: at least do me the favor of reading my books before you try to libel me. What’s the problem? Hurting your bottom line? Shame on you!

• Sonny

Easy to judge a man’s character

Well, I guess that clears things up. He demands respect from people who he doesn’t believe are fit to shine his shoes. At least there were some amusing links that we can all get a good laugh from. Thanks for stopping by Richard. If you have anything else you want to say before you go, do it now and make it count.

-Sonny-

• RichardHarvey

I have a right to be angry

Sonny,
Why the slap in the face? Have you read my books? Do you think you and your buddies have the right to diss anyone you like, without cause? There are libel laws in this country, buddy boy.
Just another person who’s more than willing to be nasty, right, without having read my books? Why? Cause your friends told you to hate me for challenging their old fashioned ideas, so you lockstep in line with them, and post stupid comments against me?
Again – you pretend blackjack experts ought to read other books out there, books that even challenge ideas. And if you’re going to criticize someone, I think that someone has the right to ask that you at least inform yourself before you get nasty.
I have no respect for those who trash me, would you? Especially those who haven’t read my books!! How stupid is that???
And I’m in the wrong?
If you’re all so interested in blackjack, why NOT read my books? Go to the library, for chrissakes if you want to. I don’t care.
But you at least owe me the respect of reading my books before opening your mouths. Why don’t you understand that???
Richard Harvey
P.S. Anyone who forms conclusions without any facts is plain dumb!!!

• RichardHarvey

P.s.

And I wonder how, if this site is being moderated, how libelous and ignorant remarks such as flash1296’s are allowed to be posted. Funny, but you didn’t get upset about his remarks. And, by the way, the answer is, no, no one has the right to libel another. There are laws about that. And blackjackinfo.com is responsible for any libel it allows to be posted on its site, for your information. I would call your attorneys if I were you because I mean business. I’ve had it.

• Sonny

Truth is an absolute defense of libel

You have shown me everything I need to see. The links that you posted prove that you are not a mathematician, you have not done any real research in the field and you do not understand even the basics of blackjack. The content of your posts prove that you are not trying to defend yourself or support your claims at all. Instead you have decided to insult everyone who disagrees with you even though you are not familiar with any of their work.

You should be less worried about character assassination and more worried about character suicide.

Banned.

-Sonny-

• SleightOfHand

Reminds me of JSTAT when he calls bj simulations “phony blackjack” and calls out faults with HiLo in specific circumstances. However, he says aces are bad for the player so I guess it cant be him.

Quote: RichardHarvey said:
P.S. Anyone who forms conclusions without any facts is plain dumb!!!

Agreed.

• Seaclusion

OMG, I just read some of what is in his lengthy site. Unbelievable.

I wish I knew what his system is so I could run my own simulations and test it, but alas, as in all those who claim to have found a better way, you don’t get any details unless you buy them.

• johndoe

Thanks for stepping in, Sonny, and well done. I was getting my flamethrower ready.

Hey Seaclusion, I’ll pony up the \$0.75 if you want to run the sims. Though I’m sure he’d find a way to argue against it (a la JSTAT).

• Seaclusion
Quote: johndoe said:
Thanks for stepping in, Sonny, and well done. I was getting my flamethrower ready.

Hey Seaclusion, I’ll pony up the \$0.75 if you want to run the sims. Though I’m sure he’d find a way to argue against it (a la JSTAT).

He calls computer sims “Phoney Blackjack” so he’s already decided that computer sims aren’t worth anything. I wouldn’t waste any time trying to convince him of anything, but I am interested for my own curiosity. Still not sure I want to spend the time doing it. Would be better off spending that time at the tables.

• FLASH1296
Libel does NOT extend to the internet – where free speech reign supreme.

• sagefr0g
Quote: RichardHarvey said:
…. “Strings” have nothing to do with my books or methods. Where did you get that from?
..!

errhh, i don’t believe it was Renzey that referred to “strings”.
it was i, here: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=175088&postcount=5

but anyway on page 295 of Cutting Edge Blackjack 2nd Edition there is indeed a reference using the word “strings”, with in the context of the “orbiting associations” under the section on Inter-Shuffle Analysis.

• Deathclutch

A few beautiful gems from his website http://www.blackjacktoday.com/WhyCardCountingIsBadBlackjack.htm

In a continuing series on how horribly ineffective card counting methods are, let’s look today at Arnold Snyder’s unbalanced Red 7s system. This is the Hi-Lo system plus, for some unknown reason, the red 7s (hmm, someone needs to research unbalanced counts.)

Snyder also misinterprets the Aces. He believes they’re good for the player when overdue. My research proves the opposite. The dealer’s effectiveness against you improves dramatically when getting Aces.

So what can we conclude about Snyder’s Red 7s counting system here? These two exactly equivalent card situations resulted in two wildly different Red 7s counts. Hence, it’s useless. (After showing situations where sometimes there are red 7’s and sometimes black 7’s )

Plus, Snyder leaves out the 8s and 9s from consideration. He says they’re “neutral” cards that do not affect your outcome. But my research has shown they have a huge effect on your likelihood of success.

It’s a strange knockoff of Arnold Snyder’s equally strange Red 7s system, both of which are inexplicably imbalanced : 2s through 7s count as +1; 10s and Aces as -1. It’s the Hi-Lo system plus the 7s (the 8s and 9s are totally ignored; but why?).

Yet he warns these meager profits will be gained only over the “long haul” and “not in the short run.” Really? Interesting admission. How long a haul? He refers to “billions” of computer simulations (phony blackjack) his system was based upon. Perhaps he means you need to play more than a lifetime of blackjack?

Sonny, why ban him!!?!? This could have gotten fun!

• QFIT
Quote: RichardHarvey said:

I not only demand respect, I’m here to announce that I am fed up with the libel on the Internet by anonymous trolls who aren’t fit to shine my shoes

“You demand respect and you’ll get it. First of all, you give respect.”
— Mary J. Blige

“Respect was invented to cover the empty place where love should be.”
— Leo Tolstoy

But, at least I’m happy to know that I’m not fit to shine his shoes.

• QFIT
Quote: Deathclutch said:
Snyder also misinterprets the Aces. He believes they’re good for the player when overdue. My research proves the opposite.

He must be playing Harrah’s new game. Blackjack pays a whopping 1:5.

• Sucker

How ironic. Whining at the top of his lungs about libel.

So what do you find when you go to his website? Sentence after sentence of libeling almost every single blackjack author who’s ever written a book.

• 21forme

Our local casinos have a tabloid-style “newspaper” with articles about gaming. I thumbed through one recently and saw an article about playing BJ by a guy I never heard of, full of voodoo and misinformation. I thought to myself this is perfect for the casinos. What’s next – giving out Basic Strategy cards with incorrect information? Guess who was the author of the article!

• Renzey
Quote: RichardHarvey said:
And Renzey, I’m shocked that you would be critical without any knowledge of what my books are about. How about reading my books first before you go off half-cocked with your criticisms? “Strings” have nothing to do with my books or methods. Where did you get that from? At least do me the favor of reading my books before you try to libel me. What’s the problem? Hurting your bottom line? Shame on you!

Richard,
I did read Cutting Edge Blackjack. I must admit it was painstakingly laid out and well illustrated. But sticking in my craw were the places where you seemed to me to misinterpret the workings of basic probability and conditional probability. And your strategies were built on what seemed to me to be those misinterpretations.

I don’t know. You are definitely a blackjack nonconformist/rebel. Maybe you’re just a genius who’s way ahead of his time, along with the likes of Doug Grant, Jerry Patterson and E. Clifton Davis. But to my knowlege, the best technology we have can’t find credence in their or your strategies. I don’t have to be right about your being wrong. But it’s my very educated belief that I am. If I’m wrong, I would think you’d want to convince me that I am.

If you’d like to post some concise substantiation of why present counting systems are in error and your methods are more spot-on, I would like to see it here for all to read. I will reply in respectful honesty.

• Tarzan

Suggestion

Just for laughs, why doesn’t someone spring for the 75 cents and then pick apart his book with a microscope? From what 21ForMe said about an article he saw by this guy, I’m sure it would be entertaining. Do an objective book review, giving the guy a “fair shake”.

I have a good idea of what the objective analysis would work out to, though. 21ForMe and Flash are no dummies. They are both no nonsense mathematical guys whose opinions I trust. There are so many bogus “systems” and misinformation out there that it’s amazing but for a mere 75 cents? I have paid a lot more than that to get a good laugh and be entertained… it could be like getting admission to a comedy club for only 75 cents! Order his book, Flash… put up the 75 cents, review it then let me borrow it the next time we see each other and I will run a full analysis of it. I’ll even split the cost of it with you! We’ll post the findings on here, giving Richard the chance to REALLY hate you.

• Katweezel
Quote: Deathclutch said:
A few beautiful gems from his website http://www.blackjacktoday.com/WhyCardCountingIsBadBlackjack.htm

Sonny, why ban him!!?!? This could have gotten fun!

Yeah, he might have been given plenty of rope… Richard’s ego obviously needs far more than average respect from his book readers, and more importantly for him, far more from those who have not yet had the pleasure of reading his wonderful new blackjack ideas. Did Richard say how much he won from them last year?

PS. Sonny, can Richard be extended a sort of temporary parole or something and given some rope? (Presuming he won’t get cranky again and start threatening people here again, of course.) This was getting interesting.

• Katweezel
Quote: FLASH1296 said:
Libel does NOT extend to the internet – where free speech reign supreme.