Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[zengrifter]

Send me - [email protected]

 

[LANIDAR]

The latest, A/O 9/29/07, I've heard from the OPU....

hookoo:
I have been gone for a while and wondering if this jerk in jail yet?

Catman Dude:
I haven't heard a thing. I don't think the District Attorney in Visalia CA is doing anything unless it involves money over $100,000. There was one group that gave Bruce Holway (aka Cipher) over $100,000 and Bruce convinced them not to go forward. I think Bruce is working that off and likely leave the rest of us behind.

Lanidar:
WTF...why over 100K...that's a crock of ****!
We all know that people have gotten locked up for a lot less than that!
I remember that Bruce's wife worked for a judge ... I believe in Visalia.
Maybe, just maybe some one fluckin' was greased?

SirWilliam58 Online:
Moderator Posts: 3,244:
I agree, when this whole thing started I had mentioned that his wife worked for the judge. I have sent numourous emails trying to get an update from the D.A. so more than likely he's been paid off in some fashion, because he will not respond to me any longer.

Well boys and girls....it looks like this issue is going to fade away.

 

[zengrifter]

The victim(s) should make an appointment to sit down with a Postal Inspector, as I originally suggested. zg

 

[TheProdigy]

"There was one group that gave Bruce Holway (aka Cipher) over $100,000"

Wow, and here I am working at a normal job like a moron. Maybe I should become a scammer. I just gave human kind too much credit when I thought there would not be enough dumb people to make it worthwhile.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Now I'm going to do exactly what I did with the last pile of garbage that came up a couple of months ago. I'm going to give you a couple of days to get everything you want to get out there. But let me give you fair warning, if you're looking for sympathy you'd better check in the dictionary between **** and syphilis.

These are the words of wit that I received from your brother via email this morning. "QUOTE DAN BELL the brother of TIM BELL aka LIQUID CHIPS: When will you believe we are men of our word?? This is just the beginning and this is my word."

That coupled with the assistance of the many BELL cousins retired from the F.B.I. and the Secret Service not the least of which is Uncle DONNY BELL of Louisville, Kentucky who has run for Governor on more than one occasion, as he holds a retirement from the F.B.I and the Secret Service and he's helped me clear up matters in the past and you'll be no exception. And then of course there's BRUCE ALEXANDER (retired Secret Service) that will be more than willing to assist.

You're going to need all the help you can muster Danny Boy.

Go deep, really deep.

Have a good one.

Cipher

what a moron.. ive run across people like this all the time, such as in a chat room when somebody says "i have just reported you to the fbi, and my dad works there, so your going to be in big trouble!"..

"Zen, I'll be happy to tell my side of this when the time is right . But not unlike yourself, I've also learned that once a volcano starts belching super heated gases the best thing to do is to let it blow and believe me, it's not done blowing yet.

Cipher"

Cipher- I have been reading your posts for some time, and quite frankly they are ridiculous. First, you never, ever address the issues. You dance around the allegations and respond to non-existent assertions and "threats". Additionally, you seem to enjoy posting metaphorical language that really serves no purpose. In your quote above, that whole volcano metaphor is absolutely ridiculous. You are dealing with people, not volcanoes. One can pull analogies and adages for any situation. "The early bird catches the worm." "Good things come to those who wait." Which one is it? A more appropriate volcano analogy would be if you considered your responses to be a giant plug that stopped the lava flow. If you did have legitimate excuses for the allegations, then those excuses would stop the flow of "super heated gases," right? The point is, address the issues, and stop beating around the bush. Beating around the bush just makes it seem as though you have no explanation and that everything levied against you is true.

SOMETHING is obviously not right with Cipher. According to the postings on this board, Cipher has failed to comply with his side of a "contract" on multiple occasions. I have not once seen Cipher deny these allegations. Instead of answering the "investor's" questions in a calm, level-headed, and straightforward manner, Cipher appears to string people along with unbelievable excuse after unbelievable excuse. The impression this gives me is that Cipher either (a) is deliberately scamming people and taking their money, OR (b) truly believes his system will work and intends to pay out, but he has lost the money and is unable to pay (wouldn't that be a rarity for a gambler?). If it is (b), his string of nonsensical responses are a great way for him to buy more time trying to win the money back, when in reality he is just digging a deeper hole.

Furthermore, Cipher's implication that anyone from this forum is in "hot water" for "deformation of character" is absurd. First, if Cipher actually had consulted an attorney, he might know that it is "defamation" and not "deformation". Also, he might know that it would be libel, not slander. Additionally, in most cases a plaintiff must prove that a defendant DELIBERATELY misrepresented the plaintiff and/or facts. People restating facts as told to them by involved parties does not constitute libel simply by virtue of those facts making a person look bad. If you do something that makes you look bad, and then someone tells the public about that something, it does not constitute libel.

The idea that Cipher would go to any legal authorities over this is a joke in itself. In case you didn't know, Cipher, investment groups and banks are regulated by an organization called the Securities and Exchange Commission. You can go to their website at http://www.sec.gov and look into it. I am not 100% sure, but I am inclined to think that your little "investment fund" is not legal and therefore you reporting its existence to the authorities is unlikely.

One last point...I like how Cipher asserts that alluding to legal action constitutes a "threat". It may be a threat in the colloquial sense, but certainly not in the legal sense. So big deal? You are such a big man Cipher (figuratively and literally), why do you get so defensive?

See, Cipher? This is how you respond to things that are actually said. Notice how I didn't skirt the actual issues and respond to what I *wished* was the issue? If you are legit, then there will be legit answers for your inability to honor your agreement. If you are a fraud or a gambling addict, then the story will continue as it has.

im going to sound like a kid on this one, but, OMFG BURNED

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

after everything that has been revealed in these threads, there is still one question that has been bothering me. why, if you were as fat as cipher, would you post a picture of yourself next to a product you are trying to sell? i mean, it's disgusting isn't it? if i were as fat as cipher there is no way i would put a picture of my fat ass anywhere near my product, no matter how stupid the product was (say, for example, it was as stupid as cipher's software). it's just a turnoff to consumers. i mean, think about if you saw cipher's big ol belly next to a porsche on the dealer's lot. the image of a disgustingly overweight fatty would forever be associated with porsches. that's just bad marketing.

i want to see this picture

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

no, no, NO!!!! i did NOT just waste one hour of my time reading this just to have it end out of nowhere.. what happened to cipher? my guess is that cipher wins

 

[LANIDAR]

no, no, NO!!!! i did NOT just waste one hour of my time reading this just to have it end out of nowhere.. what happened to cipher? my guess is that cipher wins

I also tend to believe that Cipher won.
Zen had the best idea when he stated that the U.S. Postal Inspector should have been involved.

 

[TheProdigy]

I also tend to believe that Cipher won.
Zen had the best idea when he stated that the U.S. Postal Inspector should have been involved.

Cipher wins for now. Knowing him he will keep coming up with new scams though. Eventually he will scam the wrong person and they will probably hunt him down and blow up his house... one of the disadvantages of making money through scams instead of "honest" work.

 

[zengrifter]

Is his website still active? zg

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Yup!

 

[LANIDAR]

On one of our phone calls, Cipher told me about some men who "came to pay him a visit" to his home. He did not elaborate exactly why they were there. But, I was under the impression that they were there to collect money or to stop bad mouthing someone. I truly don't recall which it was. But, he said that when they left his house they drove away and as they drove away they drove up a one way street the wrong way and that the cops stopped them and arrested them. Then he laughed.
The cops JUST HAPPENED to be there?
Hmmmm...who knows if this is true or not....but, it was one of his stories.

 

[Kasi]

Fwiw, I used to analyze a whole bunch of Cipher strands and there was nothing at all unusual about his results from a flat-bet point of view.

I guess that'd be not exactly earth-shocking news to anyone here.

Or the fact, that employing 90-1 betspreads and more, produced a lot of winning sessions.

Nothing I ever felt like investing in though lol.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I also tend to believe that Cipher won.
Zen had the best idea when he stated that the U.S. Postal Inspector should have been involved.

i never understood what the postal inspector would do, i mean isnt that for like usps mail?

On one of our phone calls, Cipher told me about some men who "came to pay him a visit" to his home. He did not elaborate exactly why they were there. But, I was under the impression that they were there to collect money or to stop bad mouthing someone. I truly don't recall which it was. But, he said that when they left his house they drove away and as they drove away they drove up a one way street the wrong way and that the cops stopped them and arrested them. Then he laughed.
The cops JUST HAPPENED to be there?
Hmmmm...who knows if this is true or not....but, it was one of his stories.

my money says that they threatened him, he paid them, and then made up a story to "get back at them" even tho they dont know about it.. i have a feeling that everybody who was wronged by him either did nothing, or went to a lawyer that said "you have no case, even tho you were wronged, thats life".. i could ask a couple of my friends about this, one of whom is very smart, but meh, i already know he will tell me that even if they had a written contract, it would still be a gray area, unless the contract was rock solid with many details and notorized or something

 

[TheProdigy]

Fwiw, I used to analyze a whole bunch of Cipher strands and there was nothing at all unusual about his results from a flat-bet point of view.

I guess that'd be not exactly earth-shocking news to anyone here.

Or the fact, that employing 90-1 betspreads and more, produced a lot of winning sessions.

Nothing I ever felt like investing in though lol.

It's that he only had 40 hand sessions. He would have many small to medium losses. He would just keep increasing his bet so that one big win would put it back in the plus side. Then he would scale the bet down for the rest of the 40 hands to "lock in" that profit. And if it didn't work out, don't put the thread up online. That's why he seemingly had 100% winning sessions, because he only showed the winning ones!

 

[Sonny]

i never understood what the postal inspector would do, i mean isnt that for like usps mail?

Yes, but the USPS is a Federal agency so any type of mail fraud is a Federal offense.

-Sonny-

 

[Kasi]

It's that he only had 40 hand sessions. He would have many small to medium losses. He would just keep increasing his bet so that one big win would put it back in the plus side. Then he would scale the bet down for the rest of the 40 hands to "lock in" that profit. And if it didn't work out, don't put the thread up online. That's why he seemingly had 100% winning sessions, because he only showed the winning ones!

Couldn't agree with you more.

Although most of the strands were characterized by one or 2 very large bets as opposed to a series of hands with smaller increases.

Also, just so u know, if I didn't make it clear, while most of the strands were not many hands, I did combine them all so I had several thousand hands overall for analysis.

And it is the aggregate of all those hands on which I based my conclusion that the overall game of BJ he played was completely normal, well within one standard deviation of expected for a flat-better.

Which really only goes to show that the internet casinos were dealing a fair game.

We'll just never know over how many hands his "betting system" lasted.

As I recall, he certainly did "make-up" alot of units compared to his "average bet unit". But, like you say, without all the hands he played, it's a little meaningless unfortunately.

Don't know if I still have them but, if I do, I'll try to be a little more specific.

I probably don't though because showing me a "few slices of heaven" never really cut it for me.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Yes, but the USPS is a Federal agency so any type of mail fraud is a Federal offense.

-Sonny-

and what fraud did cipher commit as far as mail goes?

 

[Liquid Chips]

and what fraud did cipher commit as far as mail goes?

Funds were sent to him via FedEx.

 

[sabre]

What is the status of the civil litigation? It seems to me that you had more than enough evidence to get a judgment for at least the principle amount that you paid him. Did a lawyer dissuade you from pursuing a civil case?