Cipher Warning

[RJT]

Well Cipher mate, RNG were designed by computer programmers all with sound groundings in mathematics, the principals that they work on are all probablistic (i.e. mathematical - i've included a link to the wikipedia definition for you as you seem fairly unfamiliar with the concept) and the games that they run are all designed to simulate certain probablistic certainties - i.e that the house will always have an overall edge.
To take a quick quote from wiki

"mathematics is the science of pattern and that mathematicians seek out patterns whether found in numbers, space, science, computers, or in imaginary abstractions."

and another

"Mathematicians explore such concepts, aiming to formulate new conjectures and establish their truth by rigorous deduction from appropriately chosen axioms and definitions."

If you cannot prove your conjecture that "trend analysis" (i.e. finding a pattern in a given group of numbers) works, then you are just wasting cyberspace and that many other people's time.

Your statement above just shows that you cannot prove any intrinsic worth in your system, and as such cannot "put up" so should "shut up".

RJT.

 

[Sonny]

Sonny using a suspect IP...

Yeah, I got a kick out of that one too. Ooooh, Sonny works for a mid-sized BPO – how sinister! :devil:

I was making him look foolish on his own website so he was fishing for a reason to ban me. Once again he took the coward's way out.

-Sonny-

 

[CIPHER]

Well Cipher mate, RNG were designed by computer programmers all with sound groundings in mathematics, the principals that they work on are all probablistic (i.e. mathematical - i've included a link to the wikipedia definition for you as you seem fairly unfamiliar with the concept) and the games that they run are all designed to simulate certain probablistic certainties - i.e that the house will always have an overall edge.
To take a quick quote from wiki

"mathematics is the science of pattern and that mathematicians seek out patterns whether found in numbers, space, science, computers, or in imaginary abstractions."

and another

"Mathematicians explore such concepts, aiming to formulate new conjectures and establish their truth by rigorous deduction from appropriately chosen axioms and definitions."

If you cannot prove your conjecture that "trend analysis" (i.e. finding a pattern in a given group of numbers) works, then you are just wasting cyberspace and that many other people's time.

Your statement above just shows that you cannot prove any intrinsic worth in your system, and as such cannot "put up" so should "shut up".

RJT.

Yes RJT, I much prefer the reality of facts over theory anytime.

Cipher

 

[zengrifter]

There is at least one well-documented case of exploiting a RNG to the point where a pattern could be deduced from previous play:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1998/Jan-10-Sat-1998/news/6745681.html (Archive copy)

However, this programmer was privy to the source code of the RNG for the Keno game in question, which is probably what made it possible.

Yes, Ron Harris had the code. There was a student who did not have the code but cracked the Windsor live keno RNG big time, but Windsor's mistake was that they were turning the machine off every night and it would reset every morning. zg

 

[zengrifter]

Actually in Visalia, there are 9 systems and CIPHER LAB U.K., CIPHER LAB DOWN UNDER and CIPHER LAB UP NORTH have between 12 and 30 systems each. Busy busy.

This is great! Hey QFIT, how about if I used a tandem array of Crays - could I crack the RNG codes then? zg

 

[RJT]

Maths=Fact
Anecadotal=Heap of shit
All your so called proof could be easily doctored in photoshop and even if it is real statistically is of FAR too small a sample size to prove anything. Beating a dead donkey i know, as you've been told this many time already, but you would need to show a far larger range of results to prove anything. All you've got there - if it is real - could completely amount to luck.

RJT.

 

[RJT]

Yes, Ron Harris had the code. There was a student who did not have the code but cracked the Windsor live keno RNG big time, but Windsor's mistake was that they were turning the machine off every night and it would reset every morning. zg

I remember reading about that a while back and that's the one i was thinking of when i brought up RNG's being beaten before.

RJT.

 

[zengrifter]

Hmm, I think you’re ready for another “time out” mister.

I'm against banning CIPHER from this forum and I've asked him to reinstate you at his. Why? Because inquiring minds want to know! zg

 

[zengrifter]

Sorry buddy, that’s not how the real world works. It’s not our job to prove your system, it’s yours. You created the silly thing, now the burden of proof is squarely on your shoulders. So far you have not given any reasonable evidence and you have even turned down several challenges to prove your system.

BUT, BUT... he's provided video and screen-shots! The proof is in the pudding! zg

 

[zengrifter]

... the games that they run are all designed to simulate certain probablistic certainties - i.e that the house will always have an overall edge.

HELLO, PAY ATENTION - CIPHER is saying that most/all of these cyber casinos have crooked RNG protocol and IF you can recognize the casino's "virtual signature" using "trend analysis" you can outsmart the software. zg

 

[RJT]

HELLO, PAY ATENTION - CIPHER is saying that most/all of these cyber casinos have crooked RNG protocol and IF you can recognize the casino's "virtual signature" using "trend analysis" you can outsmart the software. zg

Oh sorry, of course these corporations that have invested MASSIVE amounts of money in developing this software got it wrong and more than that are prepared to let simpletons like us take advantage of them - even advertise for us to do so. I forgot all about that for a second there Zen, thanks for catching me up to speed. :joker:

RJT.

 

[QFIT]

There is at least one well-documented case of exploiting a RNG to the point where a pattern could be deduced from previous play:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1998/Jan-10-Sat-1998/news/6745681.html (Archive copy)

Famous case. But, he was not exploiting a flawed RNG. He rigged the software.

 

[ScottH]

Has it been a week already? Just a few more days, please! :laugh:

 

[Sonny]

I'm against banning CIPHER from this forum and I've asked him to reinstate you at his. Why? Because inquiring minds want to know! zg

I’m afraid I disagree with you on that one. We have certainly given Cipher PLENTY of time to make his argument and he doesn’t have anything new to tell us (except for a few “yo mama” insults perhaps). I have heard everything that he has to say and I have said everything that I can say. He doesn’t trust the math and we don’t trust his system without it. There is nothing further that can come from this discussion. I see no reason that this thread should not be locked down.

-Sonny-

 

[RJT]

As much as i respect what you are trying to achieve by allowing Cipher to continue posting Zen (i fully agree that as long someone is not just being abusive for the sake of aggrevating others that they should be allowed their say), but as Cipher stated:

"Well you can talk math all you want with the likes of QFIT, Elliott Jacobsen and Michael Schackleford but I much prefer videos and screenshots and until such time as you or someone else can show that those types of media are not accurate in every detail that's too bad."

We work on maths which he doesn't value. He works on heresay, which we don't value.
Maybe not bar Cipher, but let's lock this topic. Everything that can be said has been said here and from this point on it will just descend into abuse and sarcasm. In honesty it already has on both sides.

RJT.

 

[zengrifter]

Maybe not bar Cipher, but let's lock this topic. Everything that can be said has been said here and from this point on it will just descend into abuse and sarcasm.

No, don't lock the topic. Lock CIPHER only to this topic. zg

 

[KenSmith]

I'll leave it open for now, but abusive or sarcastic posts on either side will be grounds for a 3-day banning for the first offense, 7-day ban for second offense.

 

[zengrifter]

...They also said they think he made up some bonus at Oasis casino (200k) because they have called Oasis to find out about it and everybody laughs at them. He told them to put all their money together so they could go after some bonus.... I think he was just
trying to keep their money longer.

What about the supposed $200,000 bonus from Oasis. Has anyone ever heard of an online casino offering a bonus that large? zg

 

[EasyRhino]

Famous case. But, he [Ron Harris] was not exploiting a flawed RNG. He rigged the software.

All I know is the History Channel documentary, but my understanding is that he was rigging the slot machines (via the debugging computer), but that he was just exploiting the Keno RNG.

zg- I just got an email from Crystal palace offering 15 bonuses totaling about $300k. But that's Crystal Palace, so they're not really worth the email they're printed on.

And more importantly, let's talk about me. Just two days ago I had a stretch of online blackjack where I did not lose a hand for 16 hands in a row (two pushes). If I had filmed that, would I be able to sell my own system?

 

[zengrifter]

And more importantly, let's talk about me. Just two days ago I had a stretch of online blackjack where I did not lose a hand for 16 hands in a row (two pushes). If I had filmed that, would I be able to sell my own system?

Its got to be worth something. Hey! Your last line sounded SARCASTIC! zg