Cold Shoe

[biggamejames]

How about validating your statement? You've offered all of this verbal abuse to anyone who dares to contradict you, so now how about offering some evidence to support you claim that isn't anacdotal?

RJT.

Why bother doing that???? Pretty much every one who contradicts me didnt even bother to either read and understand any thing i have said...(which begs the question, why would a person even bother responding to any one else's comments without bothering to read them or understand them)


Do you think its a coincidence that when i asked these "geniuses" some very simple and clear questions, i got not a single answer responding directly to the question...

Or may be i should just coddle some one who types crap like this...

And dammit, I'm hanging with that high count until I either run out of cards or money.


This after being repeatedly told we are talking about multiple shoes that you have lost one after another...


But then again, we are only talking about our personal income,real cash, moola baby!!!!


I should have to be politically correct when addressing some guy giving me the biggest piece of moronic advice i have read....keep reading my posts...

May be one day you will find one where i am very cordial to some guy demanding that i spend my own money the way he sees fit...


Seriously...keep reading.....may be you will see it one day..:grin:

 

[biggamejames]

Doesn't the term "shoe" imply a multi-deck game? When you say you are playing a shoe game that means you are saying you are playing more than single or double deck.

Then James goes on in this post about how he means single or double deck. Contradicts himself in the very same post!!

Get your terminology right first, James.

Speaking of terminology- what is "dood"?

Attacks and incomplete sentences, sentences with no train of thought. What a way to start my Monday.



He lost his train of thought in mid-sentence!!!!

Take it easy Biggame, don't get excited.

Biggame"stream of consciousness"James!!!

Here comes the inevitable...The typical forum geek junkie who cant make an argument or has been defeated so he resorts to correcting grammar and making correcting spelling mistakes..


WElll DOOD.... you win the battle of the correct spelling geek...on the forum..

you win hands down...




Ps...If you are going to correct some one on terminology, you better get your friggin facts correct!!!! The word shoe is actively used to describe SD , DD and multideck.


Furthermore, i went through the trouble of clarifying this issue to that every one here understood what i was talking about.

:laugh:

 

[EasyRhino]

jimmyjames, I agree that single deck is very different from the 6D/8D shoe games that I'm more used to. And of course, 2D games are sometimes dealt pitch, and sometimes out of a shoe, but I don't think that really matters for our current discussion.

Let's take single deck games, since they're the most radical departure. And let's say you want to make a decision on whether or not to hop from the table to another table. I've only got about 5 days of single deck counting experience, but there's still far more important criteria to take into consideration when determining if the other table will be superior to your current one:

- Number of players. You want to shoot for 2 or less (including yourself) in a single deck game.
- Current count. (Hey, if you're going to switch tables, it might as well be in a negative count)
- Relative heat levels.
- The size of the dealer's cans.

And switching tables still imposes "shoe leather" costs in single deck, even if it's smaller than 6D/8D games. You've got to collect your chips from the first table, schlep to the other one, you may have to break down your chips again, the PC probably has to track your play, and the dealer might even start a shuffle from scratch if the table was empty (or you might have to wait for the next shuffle if another player is already there).

First lets talk about a players mental state. If you sit down at a table, you are trying to keep a good count, doing multiple calculations in your head and trying to memorize all this stuff, while a cocktail waitress is bothering you, the dealer demanding for a decision on your play etc etc.

I think we all agree that there's a lot to keep track of when card counting. But if having a losing streak throws off a player's mental state enough to where it hampers his technical proficiency, then my number one piece of advice would be to stop being such a pansy-ass. Not only will it improve your game, but it will probably make you look like a more gracious loser to the casino (and I think they love that).

 

[RJT]

So to answer some questions:

Simply ask the guy imparting this moronic information this question.
"Sir if i get up and leave and play positive counts at another table in the very same casino and prosper, how in the heck will that hurt me?"


This hurts you as you will spend time finding another game and playing through more marginal/negative expectation hands to find another positive count. You have to remember that when you have a 2% edge that means that you can expect to win 51 and lose 49 out of every 100 bets you place (a little oversimplified, but serves for the purpose). This doesn't depend on which table you are sitting at. This is just what the wins and losses will average out to in the long run. So if they clump together this is perfectly normal and completely unpredictiable.

If a person has lost several bets in several shoes with positive counts, and the person chooses to change tables will this person fail to realize positive counts at another table?

No. If they sample enough shoes they will find another positive shoe. But that takes time and as your winnings in blackjack are base on how many hands you can play with an advantage in how short a space of time, this will reduce how much you can expect to earn per hour. Even in SD/DD games, there in no way to guarentee walking straight into another +ve count. In fact as you mentioned earlier, with the no mid-shoe entry rule you are walking away from an advantageous situation to guarentee that the next hand you play will be at a disadvantage.

Now i believe i answered both of your questions directly in my last post. Now please try to be civil and present your evidence.

RJT.

 

[biggamejames]

I'm done with this guy.Everyone here is an idiot,only BGJ knows how to play. What an awful coincidence that he happens to be the only losing player here.

Let me think for a moment. Should I heed the advice of the successful longtime players who have tons of books and simulations on their side,or go with the guy who has dropped $15,000 in the last few months,and has no plan,except walk away from hot dealers and avoid ploppies. Tough call,indeed.

Yes i am the only loser on this forum...The only one. The rest are all winning tons of money..... tee hee tee hee!!!!

Preach on Shadroch...i am sure all the noobs here believe all the crap people type on here!!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

But dont worry...Very many noobs and novices on this forum will take your advice, and go burn their hard earned money playing through multiple bad shoes...:grin:

 

[shadroch]

I'm sorry,but what multiple calculations are involved in tracking a SD game?
What is there to memorize? if a cocktail waitress can throw you off your game,perhaps you need to practice your concentration,rather than practicing excuses.
Maybe BGJ should explain his counting system as it appears to be at odds with anything I've heard about,especially as he doesn't seem to raise his bets based on the count.

 

[Sonny]

If you sit down at a table, you are trying to keep a good count, doing multiple calculations in your head and trying to memorize all this stuff, while a cocktail waitress is bothering you, the dealer demanding for a decision on your play etc etc.

Then you need more practice. Counting down a SD or DD game is ridiculously easy once you get the hang of it. It almost becomes second nature after enough practice. If someone is having that much trouble with it then they are clearly not a strong player and aren’t ready to play in a casino yet. In short, they are not a winning player.

I have several people who thought that they were "mentally tough" go on serious losing streaks and burn money they couldnt afford and were almost reduced to tears!!!!

Those were not winning players either. A good player will adjust his bets based on his current bankroll in order to preserve a reasonable exposure to risk. They will also understand the short term variance associated with the game and will be prepared for it when it happens.

This so called mental toughness is the very credo of loser compulsive gamblers who develop tunnel vision and are caught up in the grip of game so much so that they will burn through every penny on their person in that instant.

Again, a smart player will know not to play unless he has at least 3 bets on his person in order to cover splits, doubles, insurance, etc.

Dont friggin lecture me about being mentally tough. It takes a person with a strong mental constitution to push back from a table after a losing session and either opt to call it quits and leave to fight another day, of finding another table to exploit.

You’re exactly right. However, it also takes a smart person to know when and where to play. Even an amateur gambler knows that walking away when you have an advantage over the house is a losing proposition. You have to be both strong and smart to be a winning player at this game, and most other things in life as well.

Dude...I may be a novice poster on this forum...Do yourself a favor and dont assume that i am a novice when it comes to playing BJ...

Experience does not equal knowledge. People like John Patrick have spent their entire lives in casinos but still don’t know the first thing about BJ. You can spend your life learning BJ from the dealers and ploppies and you still won’t know how to play. That’s why it is so important to listen to people when they are trying to help you and show you where your mistakes are.

-Sonny-

 

[Sonny]

Ps...If you are going to correct some one on terminology, you better get your friggin facts correct!!!! The word shoe is actively used to describe SD , DD and multideck.

Actually, SD and DD games are usually called "pitch games" while 4-8 deck games are called "shoe games" because they are dealt from a shoe. I think that’s fairly common knowledge. Please check your facts carefully before you start insulting other players who are trying to help you.

-Sonny-

 

[biggamejames]

And switching tables still imposes "shoe leather" costs in single deck, even if it's smaller than 6D/8D games. You've got to collect your chips from the first table, schlep to the other one, you may have to break down your chips again, the PC probably has to track your play, and the dealer might even start a shuffle from scratch if the table was empty (or you might have to wait for the next shuffle if another player is already there).



.

Ah finally we move away from the mundane mathematical arguments and begin to tackle the real practical circumstances that an AP will actually run into in a real casino.

If i am given the choice between burning this so called "shoe leather" costs and burning real actual money at i will opt to incur the "shoe leather" costs 10 times out of ten.

While time is an important aspect of the AP, one cant fall over oneself in a bid to save as much of it so he can burn more of his BR.

Even in the worst scenario you will lose about 3 minutes table hopping. Its better to lose that 3 minutes or so because ultimately you can make up for lost time by extending your originally planned play time. But on the flip side you can not make up for lost money.

 

[RJT]

Still haven't presented any reasonable non-anacdotal evidence......

RJT.

 

[shadroch]

"mundane mathmatical aurguments"


I think I see the problem here.

 

[biggamejames]

In the end, it's your money, James is right on with that one. Play how you want but know that a good counter with vast blackjack experience and knowledge, wouldn't leave a positive shoe very often.

See this exactly where i lose it and begin to call a spade a spade!!!

NO ONE HERE INCLUDING ME IS ADVOCATING THAT ANY ONE LEAVE A SHOE WITH POSITIVE COUNT. YOU WONT EVEN FIND A SINGLE POST OF MINE SUGGESTING ANYTHNG ON THE SORT!!!


Infact such revised responses pretty much summarize the majority of responses this thread has recieved. The failure of most to aknowledge that no one here is talking about one shoe, or even losing a few hands. (if you read back you find posters actually making well formed arguments about the first few cards in the deck...Now if i cant call you stupid for forging your own argument and then arguing that issue because its whats suits you best, i sure as hell wont call you smart...)

NOw dont take this as a direct attack on you. I am just using this one statement to illustrate the fact the people here calling me the voodoo king and superstitious have completely failed to understand the circumstances that have very clearly been laid out to them...

For the 100ths time we are not talking about one shoe!!! we are not talking about one DECK!!!!!

We are in essence talking about a significant period of time (and shoes) played out at one table without and success!!!!


Therefore making a statement such as this...

Play how you want but know that a good counter with vast blackjack experience and knowledge, wouldn't leave a positive shoe very often

Is counterproductive because no one here is advocating for such!!!

 

[biggamejames]

"mundane mathmatical aurguments"


I think I see the problem here.

i thought you were done.....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

still want more from the voodoo king....Are you on biggamejames forum reading tilt? you cant avert your eyes when you see my posts?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[rogue1]

yo James

Please,let's keep it simple. If the count is elevated there are more good cards remaining than bad cards-time to play.

If the count is low there are more bad cards remaining than good cards-time not to play.

Done deal.

 

[biggamejames]

Actually, SD and DD games are usually called "pitch games" while 4-8 deck games are called "shoe games" because they are dealt from a shoe. I think that’s fairly common knowledge. Please check your facts carefully before you start insulting other players who are trying to help you.

-Sonny-

Ok here you go sonny....And all those others who were helplessly confused by my use of the word SHOE...You are right..Shoe refers to multideck games..



But i have to ask this question...I did post in several of my posts that i am talking about SD and DD games. Did you guys miss this?

Are you simply looking for mind numbingly pathetic arguments so we get away from the core issue.

I would understand if i used a word and didnt bother to illustrate specifically what i meant..

But in this case, i use the wrong word but still went on to specify exactly what kind of game i was referring to.

That would seem to indicate you are the one looking for arguments where none really exist.

 

[RJT]

I've acknowledged the fact that you are talking about pitch games and not shoe games, and i've stated very clearly why your 'hot/cold' dealer idea is a load of rubbish, so please stop ignoring any posts you find inconvenient.
And a question for you; Why would a 'hot/cold' dealer on a pitch game be any less desireable than on a shoe game? You'd leave if it was a pitch game, but your theory isn't strong enough to make you leave a shoe game?

RJT.

 

[biggamejames]

Please,let's keep it simple. If the count is elevated there are more good cards remaining than bad cards-time to play.

If the count is low there are more bad cards remaining than good cards-time not to play.

Done deal.

thats a given...No one here is arguing the opposite..

We are talking about something completely different here..(ie refer to the earlier posts)

 

[biggamejames]

I've acknowledged the fact that you are talking about pitch games and not shoe games, and i've stated very clearly why your 'hot/cold' dealer idea is a load of rubbish, so please stop ignoring any posts you find inconvenient.
And a question for you; Why would a 'hot/cold' dealer on a pitch game be any less desireable than on a shoe game? You'd leave if it was a pitch game, but your theory isn't strong enough to make you leave a shoe game?

RJT.

i am coming to your post man...Every time i click on submit, someone else is
beretting me!!!

 

[rogue1]

yo James

no,the point is keep playing if the count is elevated and don't be concerned about the dealer being "HOT"

 

[RJT]

i am coming to your post man...Every time i click on submit, someone else is
beretting me!!!

Fair play.
But you really can't complain about people berratting you when you've been calling most of them idiots.

RJT.