Desperate!

[GeorgeD]

Reality Therapy or Tough Love is sometimes th ebest approach.

Maybe Kashi should have said "I love you man, but here's what you have ti do ...." He's right in topic and right in delivery.

Some people are lucky and catch their addiction before they hit bottom. Others keep going back and lose their bankroll, their retirement savings, their house, their friends, the wife, their kids and wind up living under a bridge. Even if they straighten up, they rarely get the people back .. at least not 100% the same.rarely get them back,

I try not to judge people, it's not my place, so I refrained from commenting on this thread. But I must say, I don't disagree with a word you say Kasi, only the manner in which you said it. I wouldn't talk to a dog that way, much less another human being.

 

[kewljason]

Reality Therapy or Tough Love is sometimes th ebest approach.

Maybe Kashi should have said "I love you man, but here's what you have ti do ...." He's right in topic and right in delivery.

Except this isn't The Reality Therapy Forum nor a Tough Love seminar. Furthermore, I have yet to see any evidence that kicking a man when he's down, provides any extra incentive for him to get up. People that are successful in overcoming any kind of addiction, do so only when they decide it is time to do so. Family, friends, nor people on a message board will not decide that for them.

 

[sagefr0g]

Reality Therapy or Tough Love is sometimes th ebest approach.

Maybe Kashi should have said "I love you man, but here's what you have ti do ...." He's right in topic and right in delivery.

Some people are lucky and catch their addiction before they hit bottom. Others keep going back and lose their bankroll, their retirement savings, their house, their friends, the wife, their kids and wind up living under a bridge. Even if they straighten up, they rarely get the people back .. at least not 100% the same.rarely get them back,

Quote:
Originally Posted by kewljason View Post
I try not to judge people, it's not my place, so I refrained from commenting on this thread. But I must say, I don't disagree with a word you say Kasi, only the manner in which you said it. I wouldn't talk to a dog that way, much less another human being.

i think maybe you guys need to read Kasi's post again.
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=143203&postcount=9
near the end he did write "Still, luv ya to death. Look in the mirror. You know what to do."

and that was said even though the OP stated in his post how "I have become a degenerate gambler and I need help.
I can't bring myself to contact any gamblers help groups as I am repulsed by the image of some Al Franken - Stuart Smalley-like character with an effeminate lisp encouarging me to join some group hug."

i mean don't you get the impression from that, that the OP doesn't want to be waltzed around the park over the matter, but wants to hear some straight shooting sort of talk?
and isn't that just exactly what he got?

 

[blackchipjim]

compulsions

I would be the last one to tell someone to stop having fun. The fun stops when the thing that you are doing is ruining your life. If you continue to do the same thing over and over expecting different results that my friend is termed insanity. If ever time a person walks into a casino he goes for broke and nothing stops him from betting til' he's broke that is a problem.
I said I was not a professional counsler but I was in counseling for a different problem and it changed my life. It made me a better person and I'm thankful for the help. My wife and family and grandkids are my life and nothing comes before them,except God. blackchipjim

 

[Blue Efficacy]

What's wrong with Al Franken?

 

[InPlay]

I would be the last one to tell someone to stop having fun. The fun stops when the thing that you are doing is ruining your life. If you continue to do the same thing over and over expecting different results that my friend is termed insanity. If ever time a person walks into a casino he goes for broke and nothing stops him from betting til' he's broke that is a problem.
I said I was not a professional counsler but I was in counseling for a different problem and it changed my life. It made me a better person and I'm thankful for the help. My wife and family and grandkids are my life and nothing comes before them,except God. blackchipjim

Did you seek counsleing for a drinking problem? Did your drinking problem bring you around to God ?

 

[creeping panther]

Jimmtech

I have been trying to become an AP for several years now but I have become a degenerate gambler and I need help.

I can't bring myself to contact any gamblers help groups as I am repulsed by the image of some Al Franken - Stuart Smalley-like character with an effeminate lisp encouarging me to join some group hug.

I have read BJA3, have CVBJ, SBA and numerous other highly credentialled BJ works and tools. I am by no means as professorial as most posters here, but I have willfully ignored what I have learned about HA,ROR and the eventual futility of voodoo and progressions.

I went from Hi-lo to AO2 to Zen (going to L2 was painfull!). I sought out what I thought were some of the best games I could find and had numerous slugfests where I lost some 100-120 units, refusing to back down from high counts because of the potential loss in score: http://www.advantageplayer.com/blackjack/forums/bj-ppicks/webbbs.cgi?read=5 (Archive copy)
I thought 2D DOA DAS S17 75% and 6D 5.5/6 H17 were pretty damn good, yet the $1000 and $1200 session losses (10-120 yes 10-120 on DD) were pretty hard to stomach.

The emotional high of playing a progression and walking out with $1000 cash in 30 minutes FOR ME has trumped losing a grand and trying to be proud and hold my head high knowing that I bet per the count - hey kid, suck it up - its called negative variance.

Many APer's seem to consider themselves a superior race - well maybe they are - maybe the difference is the addition of a discipline gene or perhaps a martyr-like glutton for punishment gene.

How many put their balls on the chopping block?

My rants are not meant to be insulting, but my rage has gotten the best of me. My once $12K bankroll is gone. Blown, about half trying to do the right thing, and the rest with voodoo, slots and roulette.

It was ok til a couple weeks ago - I prided myself that I had never used any at-risk funds - I had only gambled with money I earned from work and set aside for gambling. AND THEN I started hitting the ATM and now I have cash-advanced away $3000.

I know I am an a$$h@l% and many other things and have never had such self-hate - so whatever insults and condemnations you may fling at me are true.

So the clock is running when my wife is going to find out I have just blown enough $ to create a life-changing event - if I never return to a casino, if will take me 6 months of working overtime every damn week at a job I detest just to recoup this $.

There is no way in hell that earning 1 or 2 units an hour will ever help me recoup these losses. My only solutions are:

More cash advances and maybe I'll get lucky at craps or roulette

Hail -mary bankroll at a good game?

http://www.bj21.com/bj_reference/pages/9719.html

Its hard for me to completely walk away as I continue to get $400-$600/month in cash and freeplay, and I really do have a lot of skill and knowledge that I wish I could properly apply but I keep falling of the wagon.

bj42's post: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13026&page=3

has been the most inspirational

can a gambler reform and really become an AP?

Has anyone overcome this?

Bro'

I am very sorry for you. I fear you are not alone here. You have on the most part received very good advice with the exception of 135 and some of Inplays posts. Some players who go by the "book" are blown out, they have drank the koolaide dished out by authors and software sellers who play very little if at all. The reality can be very different. I encourage no one to get into this game. I for one will never tutor young players, better they learn for themselves or get blown out early. There are some Pros here that have recently stated that they do not even consider counting as AP play.

Stop now and never play again, BAR yourself and get off the mailing list and free money, they send them to you for a reason, and go to your wife and tell her the truth and then you get help. It is not too late for you. The ball is in your court. DO NOT DESTROY YOUR LIFE.

Friend,
CP

 

[Kasi]

I try not to judge people, it's not my place, so I refrained from commenting on this thread. But I must say, I don't disagree with a word you say Kasi, only the manner in which you said it. I wouldn't talk to a dog that way, much less another human being.

I'm with you Kewlj. And I thank you for your opinion.

As you know, perhaps better than most lol, I sometimes express my opinions in an "extreme" manner. Sometimes to just provoke a further discussion. Like, in this case, I'm very happy if I had something to do with you expresing your opinion that you may not have otherwise expressed. Also, it may also just be part of my nature, for better or for worse. Pretty much, while I realize it, I'd have to say it's for the "worse".

I couldn't agree with you more when you later said "People that are successful in overcoming any kind of addiction, do so only when they decide it is time to do so.". Absolutely, right on the money.

I can't label someone else an addict of whatever kind, be it alcohol, drugs, gambling, spending, porn, sex, etc. Only they can.

I don't mean to picking on them when they are down because, to me, I view all that stuff as more like a disease than a character flaw anyway.

One guy I used to know totalled I think 6 cars while legally drunk. His license was suspended for life. He totalled another car or two after that. I don't know how he escaped jailtime.

One day, the "light" finally dawned on him. He could see it all with crystal clarity. His problem, obviously, as he logically concluded and told me, was that he must be a really bad driver. So he took a cab everywhere he went after that but never stopped drinking. Problem solved lol. He's long gone now but I still chuckle to myself when I hear him in my mind conclude, completely seriously, that his problem was that he sucked at driving. God Bless him.

I've never known a gambling addict. Alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts, shopoholics, hoarders, agoraphobics, yes. In those cases it seemed stuff happened gradually over time. The swiftness with how one's life can be potentially changed forever with a bad weekend of betting with money you don't have I guess maybe scares me even more.

If it's any consolation, I pretty much talk to myself the same way I talked to jimmtech, except not as nice. But, while I don't have a dog, I do talk much nicer to my cat than I do to myself and, regrettably, often others. That probably makes me more like Hitler who, I think, was really kind to animals.

I often wish all I had was only one measly Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

Whatever - to jimmtech - as my dear old mom used to say, do as I say. Don't do what I do. It ain't that bad. Give GA a try. Later, become part of the "relapse rate" if you want. That's your choice too. Really, not much to lose by trying it out when you think about it. You'll find your own path eventually.

 

[kewljason]

Well, kasi, I know you meant well, but it just seemed a bit harsh to me. But, as others have pointed out, maybe thats just what Jimtech was looking for when he posted. Either way, I know we all wish him the best, with the exception of Inplay and Jack Jackson, who hopefully were just trying to be humorous.

 

[Kasi]

...but it just seemed a bit harsh to me. But, as others have pointed out, maybe thats just what Jimtech was looking for when he posted.

Just stop with this "it seemed a bit harsh" stuff.

That's just plain insulting to me to say that.

Guess I'll just have to work harder on honing my "really harsh" skills. I think I may have an inner reserve I can tap going forward.

I liked you alot better when you said "I wouldn't talk to a dog that way, much less another human being." :grin:

Thx Kewlj.

 

[MAZ]

I agree with kasi here, cut the crap about this too harsh stuff. This guy is a jackass about ready to ruin his family's life. Am I supposed to say, there there, everythings gonna be alright. Hell no, this dude airs his dirty laundry on a public message board and invites strangers to comment on his problem. Well I'll tell you his problem, he thinks way to highly of himself and not of others. He is not even close to an ap, he erases all advantage from his play with lack of discipline and stupidity, and yet am I supposed to consider his feelings as his wife is unknowingly going broke due to this morons ideas on what ap is. And when he confesses that he has a problem his solutions are even more stupid and ludicrous. Dude you get no pat on the back from me. You have done nothing to deserve any credit whatsoever. You are worse than ignorant because you recognize your idiotic behavior but yet can't stop thinking of yourself enough to stop hurting your wife. Be a man and step up to the plate and do the right thing, I'll still think you're a dick, but maybe you're wife won't. She's the one that needs the pat on the back, her life is about to get turned upside down, while jackass here still believes his problems can be solved with the spin of a roulette wheel, what a friggin tool.

 

[Katweezel]

Jimm, you got guts.

jimmtech came here asking for help with his first sentence. His last sentence reads: ..."can a gambler reform and really become an AP? Has anyone overcome this?' In between, he describes his current predicament. He openly admits what he has done. This took courage, even though he is posting anonymously on a public board, asking complete strangers for help. (Jimm, you just took the first step in your own rehab, by expressing what you did and asking for help.) You have received a diverse response forming a raft of the good, the bad and the ugly. Take and use only what feels right for you.

There would seem to be two 'camps' of advice here. One is humanistic and offers mostly well-meaning advice from a helpful viewpoint, given in the spirit of non-judgment. The other camp pulls no punches and judges you harshly as a moron who is stupidly wrecking not only your own life but others as well. They also tell you to get your ass down to GA quick smart. 'Tough love' advice, 'get help', and get down to GA may not be the kind of advice that encourages others to bare their gamblers' souls here, in the manner that jimmtech has done. (This is not to say this is a club for bleeding hearts here.)

The point is that members on websites such as this talk of making money from Blackjack. But Sonny is one of the few here willing to tell the truth about this game when he said his figure for those who will achieve proficiency at card counting is a dismal 1:10000. Nobody wants to go there now, do they... Jimmtech is obviously one of the 9999 of his group that ain't gonna make it. Don't fret Jimm, you got plenty of mates!

The movie '21' continued to continued the myth of how easy it is to get rich quick from card counting at blackjack. Glamor and hype added to the heady mix. Here, hotshot, apparently-successful APs can often be read discussing technical details that can only add to the mystique of card counting. Those who can count often exude an air of smugness, something like the '21' crew. So in my view, websites devoted to blackjack need to acknowledge some responsibility for Sonny's 9999 failures out of every 10K by making it plainer to would-be apprentice hotshot APs. They need to be shown the bleached bones along the road to hell, of the millions of losers who came before, and... lost.

As for your 2 questions in your final sentence; the answers are YES and YES. Definitely. Could you? Maybe. Up to you. It takes a lot of work, dedication and commitment that few possess. Probably about 1:10000.

 

[kewljason]

I agree with kasi here, cut the crap about this too harsh stuff. This guy is a jackass about ready to ruin his family's life. Am I supposed to say, there there, everythings gonna be alright.

No you are not "supposed" to say everything is going to be alright. BUT, you are supposed to not judge, (mathew 7:1) rather than pick up a stone.

 

[MAZ]

No you are not "supposed" to say everything is going to be alright. BUT, you are supposed to not judge, (mathew 7:1) rather than pick up a stone.

Don't quote sh*t out of a fairytale to me to try to prove your point.

And by the way Kat, it takes absolutely no courage to admit anonymously to strangers on the internet you have a problem. The courage starts when you admit it to the ones you are hurting, and continues when you do something about it. Until that point its just a sniveling whining wuss move with no substance behind it. I bet ol jimtech since his last post has further destroyed his family with his bullshit rationalization on how to handle his problem. He needs a kick in the ass, he has yet to do anything commendable. If your looking for sympathy you kind find it somewhere between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary.

 

[creeping panther]

Jack

Borrow another 20K, dont tell your wife, and try again. :toast:

I hope you are saying this in Jest.

CP

 

[sagefr0g]

.... Some players who go by the "book" are blown out, they have drank the koolaide dished out by authors and software sellers who play very little if at all. The reality can be very different. I encourage no one to get into this game. I for one will never tutor young players, better they learn for themselves or get blown out early. There are some Pros here that have recently stated that they do not even consider counting as AP play.
...

exact-o-mondo!

me thinks that kool aide is a wonderful drink, delicious and nutritious and we should lap it up with great enthusiasm and gusto.
the nutrients of that great drink should go straight to the brain, the cells of which thus enriched, now have substance and energy with which by some miracle one just might by accident or maybe on purpose actually pause for a moment and make use of the greatest advantage in the universe, thought.
so really, the danger comes when one has more respect for kool aide and stuff like that, than they have for the one single most powerful force in nature which just happens to be the very gift each of us possesses, that being a brain and the freedom to use it.

a little knowledge in the wrong hands can be a dangerous thing, indeed.

 

[sagefr0g]

..... So in my view, websites devoted to blackjack need to acknowledge some responsibility for Sonny's 9999 failures out of every 10K by making it plainer to would-be apprentice hotshot APs. They need to be shown the bleached bones along the road to hell, of the millions of losers who came before, and... lost.

As for your 2 questions in your final sentence; the answers are YES and YES. Definitely. Could you? Maybe. Up to you. It takes a lot of work, dedication and commitment that few possess. Probably about 1:10000.

well, said, imho.

just me maybe, it's the stuff like you allude to, the stuff we don't see and hear about, that maybe needs some more attention.

that being the case, if it is the case, lol, then kudos to jimmtech for posting, and best wishes for him dealing with it, and maybe we can all learn from it.

 

[kewljason]

exact-o-mondo!

me thinks that kool aide is a wonderful drink, delicious and nutritious and we should lap it up with great enthusiasm and gusto.

Didn't do much good for the 913 memebers of Jim Jones' Peoples Temple Cult who perished after drinking "enhanced" grape kool-aid. :laugh:

 

[InPlay]

Bro'

I am very sorry for you. I fear you are not alone here. You have on the most part received very good advice with the exception of 135 and some of Inplays posts. Some players who go by the "book" are blown out, they have drank the koolaide dished out by authors and software sellers who play very little if at all. The reality can be very different. I encourage no one to get into this game. I for one will never tutor young players, better they learn for themselves or get blown out early. There are some Pros here that have recently stated that they do not even consider counting as AP play.

Stop now and never play again, BAR yourself and get off the mailing list and free money, they send them to you for a reason, and go to your wife and tell her the truth and then you get help. It is not too late for you. The ball is in your court. DO NOT DESTROY YOUR LIFE.

Friend,
CP

I gave him good advice. People need to be responsible for their actions, instead of crying and looking for advice on the internet. I always said if you can't stand the heat get out. I have been in plenty of blast furnaces myself and came out fine, but then I am not a whiner.

I summarize by your post that you do not go by books or software simulation can I assume that is correct? If this is correct what method or ideology do you use? Please give us something specific, so we can understand your methods.

These are your words' "Some players who go by the "book" are blown out, they have drank the koolaide dished out by authors and software sellers who play very little if at all. The reality can be very different." Please explain this.

 

[creeping panther]

Inplay

I gave him good advice. People need to be responsible for their actions, instead of crying and looking for advice on the internet. I always said if you can't stand the heat get out. I have been in plenty of blast furnaces myself and came out fine, but then I am not a whiner.

I summarize by your post that you do not go by books or software simulation can I assume that is correct? If this is correct what method or ideology do you use? Please give us something specific, so we can understand your methods.

These are your words' "Some players who go by the "book" are blown out, they have drank the koolaide dished out by authors and software sellers who play very little if at all. The reality can be very different." Please explain this.

Only an ASS would ASSume anything.

ASSume nothing.

CP