For all you interested in poker
- Thread starter standard toaster
- Start date
for the low-limit games, how much is entrance fee (if there is one) and how much are blind bets typically? is it just 1 blind or do they have big and small blind? and how much is the rake?
im considering playing at AC but not any time soon
p.s.
this is a newb question, but does anybody play yahoo holdem? just wondering how you would compare the players in the advanced rooms to players at casinos or in any other real life game
im considering playing at AC but not any time soon
p.s.
this is a newb question, but does anybody play yahoo holdem? just wondering how you would compare the players in the advanced rooms to players at casinos or in any other real life game
we should start new threads with all these misc questions, maybe we can get some good discussions going on a variety of poker topics.
There is not an entrance fee.
Limit games are specified by the bet size before and on the flop, and the turn and river bet - 2/4, 3/6, 4/8 etc. Usually there is a 2/4 game running which would be the lowest game spread in a casino, sometimes the lowest is 3/6. In 2/4 limit, you would bet $2 before and after the flop, and $4 on the turn and river. Raises have to be $2 or $4 in size (depending on preflop/flop or turn/river). There are a total of 4 raises (sometimes 5), making the max bet on any one street $8 or $16, if you call all the raises.
There is always a big blind and small blind. The big blind is equal to the preflop/flop bet amount so in a 2/4 game the big blind is $2. The small blind is usually 1/2 that. There might be some rounding because of casino chip denominations, ie in a 3/6 game the big blind is $3 and the small blind is $1, because it would be hard to post $1.50
The rake is usually 10% capped at a maximum of $4. Sometimes there is an additional $1 raked at some point for a jackpot or some other bonus promotion. Sometimes the max rake is $5. Usually if there is no flop, there is no rake.
There is not an entrance fee.
Limit games are specified by the bet size before and on the flop, and the turn and river bet - 2/4, 3/6, 4/8 etc. Usually there is a 2/4 game running which would be the lowest game spread in a casino, sometimes the lowest is 3/6. In 2/4 limit, you would bet $2 before and after the flop, and $4 on the turn and river. Raises have to be $2 or $4 in size (depending on preflop/flop or turn/river). There are a total of 4 raises (sometimes 5), making the max bet on any one street $8 or $16, if you call all the raises.
There is always a big blind and small blind. The big blind is equal to the preflop/flop bet amount so in a 2/4 game the big blind is $2. The small blind is usually 1/2 that. There might be some rounding because of casino chip denominations, ie in a 3/6 game the big blind is $3 and the small blind is $1, because it would be hard to post $1.50
The rake is usually 10% capped at a maximum of $4. Sometimes there is an additional $1 raked at some point for a jackpot or some other bonus promotion. Sometimes the max rake is $5. Usually if there is no flop, there is no rake.
I just used the top 10% in an online freeroll as a loose guide. you'll make it to the top 50% by not playing a hand and sitting out but I think you do have to be somewhat good to make it into the top 10% consistently. I'm not even sure what ABC poker is since what may be ABC poker to me, for another person might be like rocket science. How good the players are at the casinos you go to depend on the casinos as well. I can state that the weekday players at Caesars or the Borgata in AC are a pretty good bunch as a whole in the NL games. I think if you can consistently beat the crowd that plays there during a weekday, you know you're good. I personally on average, do a lot better than 4BB's an hr in NL poker. If I didn't get so bored waiting for a good hand in poker, I probably wouldn't even play BJ as I think it is much easier to make money playing poker than BJ.
Here's a scenario I had when I played a few days ago which is a good example of what separates good players from average or bad players.
You raise it preflop in a 1/2 NL game to $10 with A,Q and everyone folds except one person who calls.
On the Flop a Kh, 8s, 5d comes out. The person who called you is first to act and bets $15. What do you do in this situation and why?
Here's a scenario I had when I played a few days ago which is a good example of what separates good players from average or bad players.
You raise it preflop in a 1/2 NL game to $10 with A,Q and everyone folds except one person who calls.
On the Flop a Kh, 8s, 5d comes out. The person who called you is first to act and bets $15. What do you do in this situation and why?
hmmm what to do ?
If the player is a tight player i respect him . If he is aggressive I might raise and find out exactly where I am at . I would assume he has played a k,q suited perhaps and if he comes over i am gone cause then I feel he has the goods . My first scenario would be to fold if he was a tight or locksmith player .
If the player is a tight player i respect him . If he is aggressive I might raise and find out exactly where I am at . I would assume he has played a k,q suited perhaps and if he comes over i am gone cause then I feel he has the goods . My first scenario would be to fold if he was a tight or locksmith player .
Here’s a guess from an admitted beginner…
Fold. Your opponent has indicated he liked the flop a lot. Meanwhile, it didn’t do you much good. You have a backdoor straight draw. You didn’t give the suits for your AQ, so maybe you have a backdoor flush draw, too. Regardless, the pot odds don’t seem to justify hanging around.
Did that sound like I have any kind of a clue? :laugh:
Fold. Your opponent has indicated he liked the flop a lot. Meanwhile, it didn’t do you much good. You have a backdoor straight draw. You didn’t give the suits for your AQ, so maybe you have a backdoor flush draw, too. Regardless, the pot odds don’t seem to justify hanging around.
Did that sound like I have any kind of a clue? :laugh:
Okay lets say I just got to the table . I would fold for sure in as much pot odds do not make it the right call in reality. You have the 2 blinds plus $20.00 for a total of 23 dollars and he comes out betting over half the pot so it is worth it to him to try and perhaps steal but not right for me to chase with no chance of hitting more then aces in reality although you can hit anything like q/q and a/a and a/q etc and a possible strait but the odds are against that. I am sorry for the long diatribe - in short i fold and I hate A/Q by the way - the pits hand next to A/J - lol
:grin::laugh::cool2:id fold. theres a good chance he has at least 1 of the 3 cards needed for pair. for turn and river, any card other than A or Q will only strengthen his chances of winning. its unlikely that you'll win with A high so i wouldnt depend on that
thats my thoughts, im a tight player cus im new to this. unless i know his playing style, id assume hes at least somewhat tight.
thats my thoughts, im a tight player cus im new to this. unless i know his playing style, id assume hes at least somewhat tight.
Easy Fold.
Although I am having problems with this scenario. If you raise preflop and are called, then how is the caller the first to act after the flop? The caller was in one of the blinds? If so, even if this is a blind defense bluff (which it probably is since the $15 overpot bet screams "I want you to fold") I still fold.
I'll just wait for better spots to take advantage of a player trying to steal pots.
If the player is a good tight player, then what was he calling the +3x BB preflop raise with? AA, AK, KK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, KQ ??? Notice with all these hands except for AQ AJ you are beat -- and with most of them even if you do get lucky and hit an Ace or Queen, YOU ARE STILL BEAT. You should fold.
If it is a bad player, I still fold. Since he is bad, there will be better situations come around to take his money.
Although I am having problems with this scenario. If you raise preflop and are called, then how is the caller the first to act after the flop? The caller was in one of the blinds? If so, even if this is a blind defense bluff (which it probably is since the $15 overpot bet screams "I want you to fold") I still fold.
I'll just wait for better spots to take advantage of a player trying to steal pots.
If the player is a good tight player, then what was he calling the +3x BB preflop raise with? AA, AK, KK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, KQ ??? Notice with all these hands except for AQ AJ you are beat -- and with most of them even if you do get lucky and hit an Ace or Queen, YOU ARE STILL BEAT. You should fold.
If it is a bad player, I still fold. Since he is bad, there will be better situations come around to take his money.
Answer
The correct answer is to raise him. Before you all vigorously argue against this.. Here's why.
You bet preflop and he called you. The odds of him having a pair of kings after the flop are roughly around 6.5% if my memory serves me correct. Given this, he is most likely trying to steal the pot. Even if he did have a pair of kings, most players would not bet it in that situation. They might bet a lower pair but if you raise them, they have to put you on a pair of kings or better than their lower pair, after all u did bet preflop. If he had pocket aces, he would almost certainly not bet you since there is nothing on the board to scare him especially with only one other person in the hand. By reraising him, I would estimate you will get him to fold the vast majority of the time. If he doesn't fold, then you know you're screwed and you will probably check or fold the whole way down unless you get an ace or feel that you can represent a better hand with bluffing.
While you may be risking an additional $30 to reraise him, it's worth it considering that if you do win, you'll get at least $33 back not including rake. If you lose, you've lost $45. Therefore you need at least a 64% chance of winning to justify the pot odds. In this scenario, I believe your odds of winning if you reraise him are better than 64% since very very few people would call that reraise without having a pair of kings or better.
The correct answer is to raise him. Before you all vigorously argue against this.. Here's why.
You bet preflop and he called you. The odds of him having a pair of kings after the flop are roughly around 6.5% if my memory serves me correct. Given this, he is most likely trying to steal the pot. Even if he did have a pair of kings, most players would not bet it in that situation. They might bet a lower pair but if you raise them, they have to put you on a pair of kings or better than their lower pair, after all u did bet preflop. If he had pocket aces, he would almost certainly not bet you since there is nothing on the board to scare him especially with only one other person in the hand. By reraising him, I would estimate you will get him to fold the vast majority of the time. If he doesn't fold, then you know you're screwed and you will probably check or fold the whole way down unless you get an ace or feel that you can represent a better hand with bluffing.
While you may be risking an additional $30 to reraise him, it's worth it considering that if you do win, you'll get at least $33 back not including rake. If you lose, you've lost $45. Therefore you need at least a 64% chance of winning to justify the pot odds. In this scenario, I believe your odds of winning if you reraise him are better than 64% since very very few people would call that reraise without having a pair of kings or better.
Before we get to many people questioning this answer maybe you should state your credentials as a poker player...(not saying this in a mean way, im just curious)
Heres my opinion:
Assuming we are playing a typical live 1/2 NL player i think raising here is terrible and definitely dont think they are folding 64% of the time. Your typical 1/2 NL donk is willing to call down and possibly even stack off with any king here. The players at 1/2 NL are so bad its not worth trying to raise them off a pot here with nothing. Just wait til you actually have a hand and then take their stack. Bluffing calling stations usually doesnt work out to well.
If we are talking about $1/2 NL online that is a totally different story and i can definitely support raising here to try and represent a made hand here.
Heres my opinion:
Assuming we are playing a typical live 1/2 NL player i think raising here is terrible and definitely dont think they are folding 64% of the time. Your typical 1/2 NL donk is willing to call down and possibly even stack off with any king here. The players at 1/2 NL are so bad its not worth trying to raise them off a pot here with nothing. Just wait til you actually have a hand and then take their stack. Bluffing calling stations usually doesnt work out to well.
If we are talking about $1/2 NL online that is a totally different story and i can definitely support raising here to try and represent a made hand here.
This is where your argument goes awry. Once you have a read or someone has bet, you can no longer use strict probabilities - you must use conditional probabilities.
The probability of someone being dealt AA before the flop is about 1%. But once you start gathering information, the probability of someone having AA is no longer 1%. Perhaps they have a tell whenever they have a premium hand (e.g. their hand shakes), or perhaps they have a specific betting pattern (e.g. 5x BB = AA). Either way, the probability of them having AA might be 0%, or it might be 100% - the probability that they were dealt AA is no longer relevant.
There is no way to say that the odds of him having a pair of kings after the flop are around 6.5% unless you've got some great information about his betting pattern.
Are you serious? This is horrendous math.
Let's look at a simple model.
(1) Opponent folds immediately. Payout = +10+15 = +25
(2) Opponent calls. Payout = P(win)*(10+30)-P(lose)*(10+30)
(3) Opponent reraises, you fold. Payout = -10-30 = -40
If you assume the other player has a random hand and neither of you bet on the turn or river, then P(win) = .52, and the EV of this move is simply:
EV = P(folds)*25+P(calls)*1.6-P(reraise)*40
The probability of him folding has to be about 42/65, or 65%, for this to work. I believe this is the number that you're calculating, but look at the assumptions - your opponent has to have a RANDOM hand and there can be no further betting.
Your opponent does not have a random hand, and there will be more betting.
The probability of someone being dealt AA before the flop is about 1%. But once you start gathering information, the probability of someone having AA is no longer 1%. Perhaps they have a tell whenever they have a premium hand (e.g. their hand shakes), or perhaps they have a specific betting pattern (e.g. 5x BB = AA). Either way, the probability of them having AA might be 0%, or it might be 100% - the probability that they were dealt AA is no longer relevant.
There is no way to say that the odds of him having a pair of kings after the flop are around 6.5% unless you've got some great information about his betting pattern.
Are you serious? This is horrendous math.
Let's look at a simple model.
(1) Opponent folds immediately. Payout = +10+15 = +25
(2) Opponent calls. Payout = P(win)*(10+30)-P(lose)*(10+30)
(3) Opponent reraises, you fold. Payout = -10-30 = -40
If you assume the other player has a random hand and neither of you bet on the turn or river, then P(win) = .52, and the EV of this move is simply:
EV = P(folds)*25+P(calls)*1.6-P(reraise)*40
The probability of him folding has to be about 42/65, or 65%, for this to work. I believe this is the number that you're calculating, but look at the assumptions - your opponent has to have a RANDOM hand and there can be no further betting.
Your opponent does not have a random hand, and there will be more betting.
Check my answer above in the thread, if you put the opponent on a hand range you are beat and need a miracle card.
But suppose it is a completely random hand?
How many random hands have Kings, Eights, or Fives in them? Sometimes you randomly get dealt AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, 33, 22 too.
Most of these hands reduce your chance of winning to 6 outs (you need 3:1 odds to call a flop bet) or even 3 outs if he randomly has a King (you need 8:1 odds to call a flop bet).
You aren't even getting 1:1 odds on calling that flop bet -- fold -- if someone is calling big preflop bets and then making big bluff bets -- you will have plenty of better chances to take all his chips.
But suppose it is a completely random hand?
How many random hands have Kings, Eights, or Fives in them? Sometimes you randomly get dealt AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, 33, 22 too.
Most of these hands reduce your chance of winning to 6 outs (you need 3:1 odds to call a flop bet) or even 3 outs if he randomly has a King (you need 8:1 odds to call a flop bet).
You aren't even getting 1:1 odds on calling that flop bet -- fold -- if someone is calling big preflop bets and then making big bluff bets -- you will have plenty of better chances to take all his chips.
Since it isn't very likely that you're going to be able to tell what hand they have based on betting patterns (lots of people call/bet 5x bb with hands less than AA or KK or AK for that matter) I think you do have to use strict probability in this case. If you've sat down for a while and have noticed a distinct pattern in the way they play, that's one thing but in general I would probably want to use strict probabilities in this case. Unless you know exactly what your opponent has how can you say his hand isn't random? I agree that he has to fold right away otherwise your odds of winning the hand are far slimmer. But if nothing else, try it in the casino and see for yourself how often it works in a similar situation.
Keep in mind, I'm not calling that flop bet. I'm raising it. Calling it is probably the worst thing u can do. The only way he calls my reraise is if he has a pair of kings or better. Since the odds of him having a pair of kings or better is less than 45% based on strict probability in this scenario, I think it's a wise move assuming you aren't able to gather any other info. Now if there were more players in the hand, forget it, of course you'd fold since he is far less likely to bluff.
This question is about playing the blinds in Limit Hold’em…
If I’m in either of the blinds, and someone raises, I’ve been routinely folding unless I have really good cards. Tonight someone tried to convince me that at a certain point the pot odds, and I believe he mentioned 6 to 1, justify calling to see the flop no matter what hand I have. Is this true? Any comments on this would be welcome.
If I’m in either of the blinds, and someone raises, I’ve been routinely folding unless I have really good cards. Tonight someone tried to convince me that at a certain point the pot odds, and I believe he mentioned 6 to 1, justify calling to see the flop no matter what hand I have. Is this true? Any comments on this would be welcome.
Thank you for that confirmation!
I thought as a beginner I should start at the bottom, so I’ve been playing 2/4. I read somewhere that you’re supposed to start at the bottom and work your way up.
I do understand about the rake being a killer at that level, though. Nevertheless, I think I’ll continue with the 2/4 until I can consistently do the things I’m supposed to be doing that I have not been doing. Things like figuring the nuts, counting outs, and keeping track of the size of the pot.
After so many years of playing BJ almost automatically I’m not used to actually having to THINK at the table.
I thought as a beginner I should start at the bottom, so I’ve been playing 2/4. I read somewhere that you’re supposed to start at the bottom and work your way up.
I do understand about the rake being a killer at that level, though. Nevertheless, I think I’ll continue with the 2/4 until I can consistently do the things I’m supposed to be doing that I have not been doing. Things like figuring the nuts, counting outs, and keeping track of the size of the pot.
After so many years of playing BJ almost automatically I’m not used to actually having to THINK at the table.